Episode Transcript
[00:00:00] Speaker A: This is the biblical blueprint for family. This will improve your family life. This will improve your marriage. This will improve your parenting. This will increase the chances of your kids remaining in Jesus and walking with the Lord for the rest of their days.
[00:00:17] Speaker B: Run your home and your dough like a biblical boss.
Hey everybody. Welcome back to Abraham's Wallet. My name is Steve Emanuel, your host and today we have a special treat. At least we have an exotic person who's going to be on the podcast today.
I'll give you a little setup for who this guy is. Let's go way back in time, all the way back to 1994.
I had graduated college in 94 and I was going to be a short term missionary with the Baptists and I moved to Northern England and while I lived there, I made the first disciple I ever made. I started spending time with a high school kid. I was in my early 20s and this guy's name was Phil and he came to the Lord while I was there, started building into Phil's life and here we are.
What is this? 30 years later and Phil is still in my life and he's actually in town in Cincinnati for a little bit. Now that he's here, I thought you would benefit from a conversation with Phil. He's going to tell us a couple of fantastic things that he's doing in his home to raise an Abrahamic family on mission. One of the tips you're going to hear is he's going to talk about the effectiveness of having regular daddy daughter dates and how it has tied heartstrings between him and his specifically teenage daughter.
And he's also going to talk to us about the fact that having a strong family identity has, in his family been saving for his, for his children. So without further ado, here's a conversation between me and my dear old friend, Phil Ronsley. Phil, here you are, all the way from across the world. How are you doing? How's your sleep going?
[00:02:17] Speaker A: Yeah, well, I've been here for a couple of weeks and yeah, I reckon I've just about adjusted to the time zone here. Plenty of afternoon naps to, you know, to stay on top of sleep, but I guess and then I'm about to head back in a couple of days, so it'll all start again with my adjustment back to the Australian time zone. But yeah, I've survived pretty well and being around people energizes you as well.
[00:02:42] Speaker B: So, yeah, yeah, I'll just, I'll just glide over. I made reference to this in the introduction. I'll just Glide over very quickly that you and I have known each other a very long time.
I don't know, there's not a lot of people in your life that you have 30 year relationships with. But I met you when you were just a kid, you know, discipled you the best way that I, I knew what that, what that was. Let me just ask a question about that. I was in my early 20s, you were 14 when we met, you came to Christ, we started spending time together. What would you say were the best slash most effective things that I did? And happy for you to tell on me and say that was not helpful. You certainly know more now than about how to make a disciple than I did when I was spending time with you. So I'd love any of your thoughts on that subject.
[00:03:47] Speaker A: Yeah, well, I'm thinking back to the morning that I rang you and I rang you to say, and this is in 1996, March of 96, I'm 15 years old and I ring you to say, hey, guess what Steve, I just became a Christian. And you're like, this is awesome, I'm coming straight over. And you came over to the house and you kind of said, right, this is what's going to happen. You and another guy who you don't really know, guy called Mark, you guys are going to go, you know, this is what's going to happen. And so you outlined, you're going to come over every week to your house at the time. We're going to learn how to read the Bible together.
You're going to teach us how to pray, how to give our testimony, how to memorize scripture, how to prepare a teaching and how to bring a teaching with cross references and, and then how to preach.
And by the way, I'm also going to give you three 10 year old boys to disciple. And this is like, this is like not just day one, this is minute one. And you're, and you're just, you sort of outlined the discipleship program as it were.
And I remember thinking to some extent this is normal, right? This is, this must be what Christians do as like an apprenticeship into the faith. Yeah, and the three 10 year old boys threw me a bit because I'm thinking, I've been a Christian for one minute and already, you know, there's a sort of responsibility to invest in another life, in another younger life. But I remember you saying to me, look, you'll have enough in your locker to teach the mind of a 10 year old. And so as you were teaching me, I was then teaching these 10 year old boys.
So there was a, there was a program element to it. There was, you know, there was a consistency. So every single week we were coming to your house, you'd given us reading plans. So we were in the Old Testament and the New Testament. We had a memory verse every week. We're constantly bringing teachings and we're discipling these three young boys. So we're, we're starting to develop skills very early.
And I think another aspect of it which I found really beneficial was just being around you. You know, it's a bit like, you know, with Jesus and his disciples. He wanted them with him, just traveling with him, just seeing him in everyday life. And so I would often be driving in the car with you as you went various places, particularly if you had ministry appointments, if you had speaking arrangements, and you would quite often, you know, just sort of put me on the spot and say, hey, Phil, you know, what's that memory verse or hey, you're like, you're up. Give your testimony. And so I had to quickly develop, you know, these skills sort of on the spot. And it was just, it was just a great training ground. The fact that we had regular consistent time, you know, with a sort of, I guess a programmed element. But also just this time with you, I was, I was really just watching you, you know, how did you interact with people at the supermarket, you know, at the grocery store? Yeah.
How were you when you were preaching at the church that I joined? And I just got to see you in all kinds of different spheres of life. And that was a huge impact because really you were my role model at that point. You kind of became my father figure.
Even though my, my father was present, he was very much there in the house. He just wasn't a real hands on, guiding influence in my life. And so you kind of became that person for me for really three years.
[00:07:07] Speaker B: That's a great point. I'd like to touch on you talking about the, the. With the, with you. You're, you're referring to Mark, something that says he called these men to be with him and to preach the gospel.
And I think sometimes men think I'll have an influence on this eighth grade boy that I find because I'm the official chaperone of the church for the boys study group.
But that, I don't know, 90 minutes that you spend with him where it's like, this is official Bible study time.
That doesn't impact a kid the same way as getting under your roof.
Seeing the way that you are with your children, seeing how you are with your wife talking through decisions that you make. Those kind of not, not flashy moments that might not seem spiritual. They're, they're actually help somebody put together a worldview for how they are going to live their lives. So I just think it's a very important thing to say to any man who wants to produce spiritual children that those guys have got to get around your Sabbath table. They've got to, they've got, you know, invite them over at 4 o' clock and let them help prepare dinner. And I always remember Carl Nyquist in Scotland always used to do this with me is that we'd have dinner or whatever and then he would say it's time to clean up now. Could you vacuum up the living room?
Yeah, sure. And, and just feeling the, the comings and goings of life, you start to put together. This is what a man does, this is what a father or family leader does. I've heard people say that godliness is more caught than taught. You just kind of, you're around somebody and you see it and anyhow, so. Go on, go on.
[00:08:58] Speaker A: Yeah, your comment there reminds me that as well as the input that you were giving me lots of teaching, you know, there'd be lots of times when we were traveling in the car when I'd just be asking you questions all the time. You know, I was very inquisitive. I was really getting stuck into the scriptures and I'd always have questions for you. And those moments, just a bit like Deuteronomy 6, you know, just when you're walking down the road or you're having a meal together or whatever, you're constantly talking about these things. And so that was very relevant for me. Lots of time with you for input. But I think what helped me then become a disciple maker was the fact that you were instilling in me skills to replicate. So the fact that we did have those 10 year old boys, suddenly we had to digest what you were saying and then make that presentable and go how do I train the mind of a 10 year old in this? You know. And I remember as me and Mark, we preached after six months, like the end of that year in 1986, you had us preach in an evening service at the church that we were at. And that was just constantly forcing us to, you know, stretch ourselves and challenge ourselves to sort of exercise these spiritual muscles that we were developing. And so it wasn't just sort of absorbing the information and almost becoming spiritually fat as it were, but exercising these skills and, and then becoming more effective in what we were doing so that all of that package produced in me something that I could replicate and set me on a trajectory that I've, that I've not really veered from. I've always then invested in other guys, particularly younger guys, in terms of this discipleship that I experienced because of what was modeled for me.
[00:10:32] Speaker B: Yeah, can I just interrupt and look directly into the eyes of the listener and just go, do you think that a 15 year old can handle the intensity and the directness of the gospel?
Or do you think that they need to play kickball and eat hot dogs and play video games at the church house until they're 25 years old and then we can maybe at some point tell them what the real following Christ looks like. I would just challenge everybody that we've been sold such a watered down version of what following Christ actually looks like. That to be a disciple, just to be a disciple, let alone make a disciple, will make you such an oddball in most Christian circles to somebody that just. I'm going to take his word seriously when he says that you have to die to follow him.
Can you, can you stomach that? I mean, do you think that that needs to be cut in half or diluted in some way if you're going to talk to a teen, for instance? I don't think so. I think that the teens, and let's remember that the disciples, many of the disciples were teens when Jesus called them. I think a teen is completely ready to hear the truth. So I just throw that out to everybody. That man Phil was a steak eater from, from day one and he's a steak eater now. So. Okay, now, now I do want to hear some criticisms. Now I'm waiting, I'm waiting for, I'm waiting for a criticism or two.
[00:12:07] Speaker A: Well, I mean, those that know you, Steve, would, would, would, would say you're a straight shooter, you know, and you don't hold back and, and that's what I liked about you. But I remember at times it would infuriate me because, you know, it's like I'm trying my best here, but, you know, he's, he's sort of, he's criticizing me. And you know, like you set a high bar, you know, it was high, high challenge, high bar. But I have to say, high support. And at times, you know, it's hard to hear criticism, especially as a young guy, you know, you're trying to impress your coach or, you know, your mentor type figure. And so I think that was hard at times that the expectation I Probably thought the time was too high.
But to be honest, it's one of those things where as a parent now, you know, you kind of go, well, that's really part of the role of a father, isn't it? You know, that we are there to set those goals and to.
To challenge, you know, which is probably something that comes more natural to dads than it does to mums. You know, mums are more specializing in empathy and support, whereas the guy's probably more high challenge. And so, you know, you've got to have a balance to that. You know, the Bible talks about not exasperating your children. And so I guess that was. That was the bit that probably I wrestled with at times, thinking, you know, you were a bit. You were a bit pushy or a bit harsh, but. But I. I understood where you were coming from, and there was a strong relationship there. So there's a context within which you were doing it. Yeah.
[00:13:34] Speaker B: Was that a new thing in your life to have somebody getting up in your face like that? Would that be unusual?
[00:13:41] Speaker A: Yes and no. Like, no in the sense of. I was an elite sports player, so I played at a high level in soccer, and so I was used to coaches.
Yeah. And I play for a lot of coaches, but some of them would be really harsh with you. You know, like, they. They were very much, you know, using the rod. Other coaches you played for, it was an arm around the shoulder, and, you know, it was like, try and give them confidence.
So I was used to that, but I don't think I was used to someone looking right into my life and saying, that's wrong. What. What you're doing there. That's just blatant sin.
And so suddenly, you know, it's not just about my sports performance. This is someone commenting on my. My character or my behavior. And that. That can be hard to take when you're not used to it. Yeah. Because I. I never experienced that at home, you know, so.
[00:14:25] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:14:26] Speaker A: Yeah, that was new. Yeah.
[00:14:28] Speaker B: I would like to make an editorial here to people listening again, which is.
I think that being direct, I think there's a place for it. And I think that making a disciple calls for it.
We all have blind spots, and to. And to care about somebody is to tell them. You. Actually, I always say, you've got poison in your mouth in this area. You might not know it.
You might go, that's just my personality. This is what my family's like, et cetera, et cetera. But I got to tell you, you got poison in your life. This Thing's got to go if you want to grow up.
And I have to chase that with. You cannot use that kind of language unless there is an environment of such dedicated love that I'm not going anywhere. This isn't a threat. I'm not telling you. You so offend me. I'm about to get out of your life. So you got to correct this thing or I'm out.
It's that I'm in. I'm in for the long haul.
I'm going to be your brother till the end. And I've also got to shoot you straight. And if you don't have those two things together, then it is, it's unfair. You know, you're making demands of people that your relationship doesn't. Doesn't validate that demand. So I think that's where the scripture comes from, certainly saying that fathers. You can't exasperate your children. You've got to lay such a foundation of love. Not just love, but I think, like, I enjoy my children. I. I accept them all the way. We have fun together.
We. We are increasingly, as they age, we're. We're buddies. You know, that's not my primary role, to be their buddy, but it is my job to, to tie heartstrings with them so that I can give them hard coaching at times. So I had to throw that. That's all. It's all a very tricky. It's a very tricky thing to manage.
[00:16:23] Speaker A: Yeah, well, you just reminded me of, I guess, my kids in the relationship I've had particularly. I've got two teenagers now, so I've got three girls.
Leah's 14, Emmy's 13, and Anna's 8. And I remember about 18 months ago.
[00:16:37] Speaker B: I know they're listening to this, so. Hi, girls.
[00:16:39] Speaker A: Yeah, yeah, hi, girls.
Yeah, I, I remember with Leah, you know, she's.
I think she turned 13, and it was one of these kind of moments where I'm thinking, wow, we're into the teens now, you know, and it's not going to be too long before potentially, you know, she goes off to college or whatever. And, and, and I start noticing a shift in the relationship, you know, because she's going through puberty and she seemed to be sort of closer to Mum and was able to talk with Mum about these particular issues. And yeah, there's, there's a bit of distance created with, with myself. And it felt like all I was doing was just making withdrawals, you know, if you think about this kind of banking analogy.
[00:17:18] Speaker B: Yes.
[00:17:19] Speaker A: You know, hey, stop doing that that's not appropriate, just withdrawal, withdrawal. And I'm, and I started thinking I'm not making many deposits here.
I'm not making, you know, this positive contribution. And so that's when I started doing these daddy daughter dates with my daughters. So each month, so Leah would be the first Saturday, Emmy would be the second Saturday and Anna would be the third. And then me and Lozzie, my wife, we go out on a date on the fourth Saturday.
And that was just a chance, as you say, go out, have some fun, let the girls pick an activity. We usually do one month paid, one month free. Just sort of look after the budget a little bit and explain, explain that.
[00:17:57] Speaker B: Because I really like the way you do daddy daughter dates. What do you mean one month paid, one month free.
[00:18:02] Speaker A: So let's say it's week is the first Saturday in the month and this month is going to be a paid month. I'll say to Leah, all right, this is a paid month. So you can choose a paid activity and she'll go, cool. All right, well I fancy going temping, bowling or I want to go to a rock climbing wall or just some paid activity and that's perfectly fine. And then obviously the other month is non paid. And so the next month she might choose to go for a bike ride or just go to the beach. We've got loads of beaches on the central coast of New South Wales. And sometimes she just wants to go and have a chat know she wants to go and get a bubble tea, I'll get my, my protein smoothie and, and we'll just sit and chat about life and, and then another thing we added in was sort of like a discipleship piece as well, which is a, is a program that I adapted from something I experienced as a kid. And I adapted the resource so that I would do a study each month. So I would, I would give Leah the chapter in advance.
She would work through this kind of worksheet which, which is kind of like, you know, look up these Bible verses, write down what they mean and then we'll come together on our daddy daughter date. We'll have some fun doing whatever we're doing and at some point we'll get the study out and we'll compare notes. Hey, what did you get for that one? What'd you get for that one? And we'll just work through that together. And those daddy daughter dates have been an absolute game changer for me in terms of that relationship. You know, that quality time that they all seek. Right. We did the love Languages test with our three girls and the top answer was the same for all of them. Quality time is what they want with their dad. And so that has been one of the top three things I reckon that has transformed my relationship with them which has just put, put us back on a level where there's good communication again, that's that good balance you can make the criticism because it's now within a context of a stronger relationship. And so there isn't the blow ups that we were used, that we were used to seeing, you know, 18 months ago. So yeah, that, that's been significant.
[00:20:05] Speaker B: So when you do these daddy daughter dates, this is like a Saturday afternoon that you're doing this.
[00:20:11] Speaker A: We do it on a Saturday morning, usually morning. Yeah, yeah. We normally go out kind of mid, at mid morning and maybe get like a morning tea and, and then do the activity up until lunch.
[00:20:21] Speaker B: Okay.
It's really good.
I like your, I like the rhythm that you have and I like that you incorporate. It's not just fun, you're also incorporating. We're going to do some actual, we're going to compare our lives to the scriptures. Let's, let's talk about, let's talk about God's Word together. It's great. You have done so many shrewd and wise things in the way that you're building your family. That's one of the reasons I want, I wanted to do an episode with you because you are like so many of our listeners, you are effectively out on an island, not just a big island that is its own continent, but you are, you're on an island where you have said that you look around for other Abrahamic family leaders. You don't find any. You find church guys and that when you try to press on them about. There's a, there's a much higher calling than showing up at the church house once a week and they're sort of like, I don't know, I, I'm getting a passing grade at the church house. So I, you know, what are you asking of me here?
So you find yourself pulling alone going, I don't really have any support.
You, you.
I'll just let you tell this story that you.
Somehow I don't know whether we, we had texted or emailed or something. At some point. Like in 2019, you found Abraham's wallet and you felt like you had a new lifeline or a new perspective or something. Tell, tell us about that.
[00:21:54] Speaker A: Yeah, I think you must have, you know. Yeah. Messaged out somehow to your contacts, you know, telling them about this new podcast. And so up until that point, you know, we. We would go long periods without being in communication.
And so I didn't really have access to your life for many, many years.
But I remember when that podcast came out, 2019, Abraham's wallet. Suddenly I had, you know, access into your life again. Just what you were thinking, like, what you were doing in terms of, you know, family life and rhythms and. And then so. So I start hearing things for the first time, you know, like, are you going away on a. On an annual marriage, you know, summit retreat?
[00:22:36] Speaker B: Right.
[00:22:37] Speaker A: To. To talk through things like five capitals.
Do you have a family vision statement?
Do you have family values? You know, are you observing the Sabbath? Do you have a family team meeting? And the answer to all these questions is no, I haven't thought about them.
To be honest. It crossed my mind. I mean, yeah, the Sabbath had. Because you see it in the scriptures, but isn't that just a Jewish thing? Like, isn't that, like. That's an Old Testament thing. We're done with that, you know.
[00:23:05] Speaker B: Right, right, right.
[00:23:05] Speaker A: So it. See, it was sort of that red pill moment to go. These are new concepts, but not just that you've created. All you're doing is you're looking back at the ancient wisdom and going, well, this is. This is God's blueprint, isn't it? Like, this is nothing new. We're actually just standing at the cross. I think it's Jeremiah talks about, stand at the crossroads and look. Ask for the ancient paths. Ask where the good way is and walk in it.
[00:23:31] Speaker B: Amen.
[00:23:32] Speaker A: And so that's what I was starting to hear. And I'm like, wow, how have I not heard this at this point? I've been a Christian for, you know, 15 years or so, in fact. Yeah, Longer. And I've never heard it. And so that was a revelation to me. And so me and Loz, we started with the marriage retreat weekend. So we got the PDF from Abe's wallet and we just worked through it, and it was on our anniversary weekend. We always do a getaway in July, and we go to the same place every year. So we thought, let's bring the PDF document and we'll work through it. And to be honest, it took us ages the first time through because it was all brand new.
[00:24:10] Speaker B: And.
[00:24:12] Speaker A: But we came away from that first weekend with a little bit of a plan, you know? Okay, we've got. We. We worked on five capitals in particular. Okay. We've got to focus now in those five areas. Let's. Let's see how it goes. And that was really the start of this journey. And then slowly but surely, we've. We've added, you know, rhythms and routines to our week into our year, which have. Have got us in a place now where I feel like we're. We're stronger than we've ever been as a family unit. Feel we've got a very strong, you know, family identity.
And I feel like the girls really feel that sense of identity as well.
You know, there's that saying that where. Where family identity is strong, peer pressure is weak, but where family identity is weak, peer pressure is strong. And I feel like we've seen that switch in the girls in. In the last couple of years in particular, as we've grown, me and Lozzie have grown in this space, and then we've sort of taught them. We're in a very different spot now. You know, we were traveling okay, like back in the day. You know, we got married in 2008, and we had our first child in 2011.
I would have always said family is very important to me. You know, it's. It's my first ministry, and so I want to prioritize it and I'll, you know, do my best. But I had that mindset that come, you know, age 18 or 21, whatever it is, they'll just springboard out of the nest and all the best girls, you know, like, I wish you well type thing. Our job is over now. And then suddenly, you know, we're introduced to this multi generational Abrahamic sort of mindset which transformed my role. Suddenly I saw myself as a coach of a team, and. And that just switched my thinking completely. So that was. That was a turning point. Yeah. 2019.
[00:25:51] Speaker B: And you. You have just dropped us in. You. You have started listening to Jeremy Pryor as well. Is that right around that same time?
Would you. And I want to be sensitive to the fact that your family might hear this, but would you be comfortable telling us the transformation that you told me about with regards to Emmy?
[00:26:13] Speaker A: Yes, it would be. It was only a few weeks ago we were having our Shabbat dinner. We do ours on a Saturday night into.
Into Sunday.
[00:26:25] Speaker B: I forgive you.
[00:26:26] Speaker A: Thank you.
Yeah. For those that are listening to do a Saturday Night, I think it's okay. I think Paul says in Colossians, you know, we can't judge anyone on the. The Sabbath, so it's all good.
[00:26:36] Speaker B: That's right. That's right.
[00:26:37] Speaker A: But yeah, we, we. We start this Shabbat dinner and we, you know, we light the candle and we have this share time where it's kind of like, hey, what, you know, what's God been teaching you? And you know, what have you been reading? And then if it's a birthday that week, then we'll sort of focus on that person and we'll really, you know, do encouragements and things like that. So this one was around Emmy's birthday, which is in September. And so we were focusing on Emmy. We were just, you know, sharing encouragement. And then she just launched into this sort of, I guess somewhat of a confession or a share that in grade five she had been severely bullied at school. It was a public school that she was in at the time.
And we knew that this group of girls weren't great for her and she was struggling a bit, but she just, she just shared that at that point she completely lost her confidence and lost her sense of identity. Before, before that she was very confident, she was very, very feminine, like in terms of how she dressed and she was doing ballet and very creative and was just, still is just a beautiful, like, kind person. And we noticed that she just started going in her shell and she was losing confidence. She changed her, her outfit completely, just went completely almost tomboy. Like just always wearing, you know, sports outfits, shorts and T shirt, dropped ballet, started playing soccer, which to be honest, I love soccer, so I'm sort of okay with that.
And so we saw this big change and she never really said two more than just look, the girls are being mean at school. And that was about it.
And then when she kind of went on with her share, she said, but now, you know, she's in such a better place because. And she was thanking me and mum saying thank you for the journey we've been on in particular in the last two years where we've given them this strong sense of identity. Because she was saying that even at home she was feeling like she was lost. You know, she was maybe, she was maybe getting in trouble. She didn't really know what her place was at home.
And she even said, and this broke my heart that she was even despairing of life itself.
And we were just crushed hearing this. You know, we couldn't believe that she was carrying this. But for her, and through tears, you know, she's saying that she just felt so grateful that she had sort of almost refound her identity as a daughter.
And you know, like, like lately she, she had a, a fancy, you know, dress up event that she had to go to and she wore a dress for the first time in like a couple of years. And we just like, applauded her and cheered her because we're like. She was just. She's such a beautiful girl and she's just sort of embracing that again.
She's feels like she's found who she is and she has a strong identity now at home. So when she walks into school now, she's got way more confidence going, look, if. If I have to walk this path alone a little bit, like, big deal, you know, because when she goes home, she's got this strong unit at home that. That knows that, you know, we have her back always. And so, yeah, big transformation in Emmy over the last couple of years. Yeah.
[00:29:53] Speaker B: That's so good.
Well done, buddy. I.
This. It's on my mind because we're. As of this recording, I know this is coming out probably December sometime, but as of this recording, we're in Sukkot.
Let me just pause there and say if we're as we. Near the end of this year, if you don't have a goal summit on your calendar, you need to do that. You need to make that happen.
I recommend that you do that. If. Let's say that the rest of your year is full, you need to put that on your calendar before school starts up in January.
So Phil just said that was the first step that he and his. And his wife Laura, who he calls Lozzie, that they. That they took and it got them on the track of wait. Our. Our life needs to be headed somewhere. We gotta have a plan. Anyways, back to Sukkot.
One of the lessons I think of Sukkot for my family is that we talk about how God is pulling us away from a godless culture that is dying.
And he's putting us on a track that ends in the new Jerusalem. It ends in heaven. So that being the case, there's all these themes of, like in the Book of Revelation. Come out of her. You, my people, come out of this culture. Come away from this dying, depraved generation that you're. That you're surrounded by.
And our children have to hear that from us. They have to hear from us.
I'm not part of the. I'm not participating. I'm not drinking the. The. The Kool Aid of the culture around me just because a big record comes out and everybody's talking about there's a new movie coming out. Everybody. We don't participate in that just because the culture is celebrating something.
And one thing that we do at Sukkot is we kind of like, we. We. We get out of our Suka.
We look around and go, do you see any neighbors that are building sukkahs?
[00:31:56] Speaker A: No.
[00:31:57] Speaker B: We're kind of unusual family here on the block, aren't we? Yes.
Bingo, kid. We're an unusual family. Just get used to the fact that the road that you're walking down with this family isn't the road that other people are choosing. You're going to be unusual. You need to get really comfortable with that. That's part of being in our family is that. And, and as you're saying, Phil, you establish an identity that's separate from sports activities and separate from music lessons or whatever they're involved in at school and go like, your identity is part of our family.
That's, that's your identity as a child.
And our family and dads, you get to, you get to declare this our family. We're a God seeking family.
We say we're a family of excellence. We're a family.
That's that as a vision or we're on a mission. We're a family that watches our words and our behavior, whatever, you know, fill in that blank with your values. But, but declaring that identity as a family, I'm just hearing Phil say here that it, I'm hearing you say that it saves the soul of your children.
That's what I hear.
And I don't think that's overstating it because otherwise if you don't give them an identity at home, you're tossing them out to the world to be discipled by the world and you're just going, please don't kill my kid in the short term, they will be killed in the long term. But you're just going like, I want it to go good for the next 30 years until I can get some grandkids out of the deal or whatever you want out of it instead of going, no, no, no, yeah, we're going to save this kid now and we're going to give him identity. Etc.
So that comes to mind. Other thoughts?
[00:33:45] Speaker A: Yeah, you, you reminded me of that, that that verse talks, you know, where there is no vision that the people perish. Correct. You need something, you need to be aiming for something like we need to have a picture of, you know, what is the good life.
And, and I think for the girls now they're hearing, you know, every week that they're hearing, I guess, the Rawnsley mantras of, you know. So for example, we developed a family vision statement probably, I think we did a zoom call with you. You helped walk us through what a vision statement might be, you know, Thinking about mine and Loz's spiritual gifts, what we're passionate about.
And we landed on that. The Rawnsleys follow God's vision for family and give it away through teaching and hospitality.
[00:34:32] Speaker B: That's a killer vision statement.
[00:34:35] Speaker A: So we have that up in our dining room. And so that gets repeated. That gets, you know, quoted every week at the Shabbat dinner.
And, you know, we've tried to incorporate, you know, the razors. Want to follow God's vision for family. You know, we want to follow God's blueprint for family. First and foremost, thinking about those internal rhythms and that identity and that trajectory, that multi generational legacy that you're trying to create.
And then second to that, we're trying to give it away. Like we're trying to bless others with that. And the two things that we feel that God has equipped us with, Myself, teaching and Lozi, hospitality. And so that really brings out, I guess, you know, some of the uniqueness to the Rawnsleys. And so the girls are hearing that we, we at the beginning of our family team meeting, which is on a Sunday night where, you know, all five of us around the table at dinner time, we can't kind of business like, you know, go through agenda. But we always start with, what? What's the point of this team? What are we about? And we. And so we always remind ourselves, well, there's kind of two mandates, right? You got the creation mandate, be fruitful, multiply, fill, subdue and rule. Okay? So sort of like we try and make it easy for the kids, right? So we got those five things. Be fruitful, multiply, fill, subdue and rule. And then we go. And what about the Jesus mandate, the Great Commission, you know, go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them, teaching them. And I'm with you always. So another five. So we go, that's one hand, there's the other. This is what we're about as a team, right? You know, we're trying to do this one really well. And we're also then trying to make disciples of people around us and, you know, teaching them to obey everything that he's commanded us. So they're hearing these messages all the time, every week. And it's, it's giving them a sense of, well, I know what story I'm a part of. I know my role in this. My role is to carry on, you know, pass on, like, receive the torch from dad, pass it on to the next generation. We're building something from generation to generation. We're part of A big story that's been played out in this Rawnsley line. And then they're not now just thinking of individuals, you know, where. Well, no one tells me what to do. I'll just figure out my own identity. I'll do whatever I want to do. Well, no, you already have an identity. You're a child of God, but you are, you are also a Wrongsley. And, and this is the legacy that we are playing out. And the girls are like, they're up for it, you know, like, yeah, I'm in. This is a great story. I want to be a part of it. And then it's, it's funny when the girls have conversations with their peers at school and you know, they're at a Christian school, right? So, you know, that's a good start. But you know, when you have these conversations. They had one recently, they came home saying, oh, dad, we were talking about, talking about, you know, what do people want to be when they're older? And they're saying, you know, we said, oh, we, you know, first and foremost, we want to be wives and mothers. And, you know, you can see the other, you can see the other kids go, yeah, but what do you actually want to be? You know, like, what's the important thing that you want to be? What's your career going to be?
And then the conversation went on to, well, how many kids would you want to have? And they were shocked that quite a number of the girls said, we don't want any kids. And then a bunch said, maybe one, two at the most. And, and when my girl said, oh, probably five, maybe more, it was just like dunk, you know, that absolute jaw dropping moment. Almost as if that's reckless. That's just, that's a silly answer, you know. And so, you know, we're. I'm not prompting them to say that necessarily. I didn't give them the number five. You gotta aim for that. That's just, that's just what they're coming up with to go, we want to have kids early and often. And that's what we're aiming for. I know that life doesn't always follow as we would hope, but you got to set out with good intentions, you know, and prepare them for what is likely going to be on their plate, which is, you know, being a wife and a mother. And so we're preparing them for that.
[00:38:28] Speaker B: That's so good, Phil.
That's awesome.
You are doing what I think a lot of our listeners do, which is we're putting something together as our outpost of the kingdom. My home to be an outpost of the kingdom. I'm going to start with my family. We're going to be disciples of Jesus. I hope we can have an impact in other people's lives, but that's really up to God. And we're going to do our best. I don't know, but what my responsibility is is this family.
So you are maintaining your, your outpost on the central coast. Right. Of Australia.
And you just to, just to fill in the blanks for people a little bit, you, I knew you in England, you moved to Scotland, married a Scottish girl. And then you guys together decided, we've got to get out of this rainy, the rainy uk and we're going to go where it's sunny and you move to Australia.
[00:39:24] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:39:25] Speaker B: Now that's, that's unusual and interesting. However, you, the, the fact that you're trying to put it together yourself is pretty normal. That's, that's, that's. So that's such a common story.
And you guys, you, well, you and, and your wife have both said, what's the next step for us if we feel like we kind of got our head around our, our home?
But you know, Stephen, you mention a midrash sometimes we did a whole episode talking about a young adult midrash in the fall, etc, and you kind of go like those things feel like another planet. I don't know how to get my head around those things. So you have done what several people have done, which is I'm going to come spend some time in Cincinnati and I want to see this for myself. You are not only in Cincinnati, which we had told our listeners was going to happen, but you are, you're in the same building as me. We're in the same room. So, so let me set you up with this question, okay? You are now a stand in for the hundreds of guys who, that if they could snap their fingers and kind of take a little tour, a little visit of what does life look like there? What, what did church gatherings look like there? What is, what does Sukkot look like in Cincinnati? What do mid rashes look like and what is Sabbaths, et cetera, when you are around other families that are pulling in the same direction. My.
I would like for you, for the sake of the listeners, give a, give a little report. I mean, be a journalist and go look, if you came here. Let me save you the trouble. Let me tell you what you'd find if you come here and just give people little reports that they could benefit from any of your insights that you've gleaned.
[00:41:27] Speaker A: Yeah, sure.
Yeah. It has been quite isolating where we've been in, in Australia and yeah, I think as we've grown in our identity and our understanding of this multi generational mindset. Yeah, it's become very apparent how different we are. And I guess, you know, what we're trying to do is very different and despite the best attempts to, you know, talk about it. So I've led men's groups for many years. Lozzi's led women's groups for many years.
We're talking about this stuff. We're, you know, we're trying to give it away through teaching, hospitality, you know, like as the vision says. So we're always hosting, we're always trying to take initiative. We're constantly dangling bait out there. You know, like, I'm going to talk about five capitals with, you know, these, these friends. Let's see if anyone responds or I'm going to mention this. In my, my men's groups, for example, the last time I did a men's weekend away, we, we used the framework of the five capitals. I thought, I'll just, I'll just see if I can sort of generate some interest here and people can actually start to take notes on the weekend and take it back.
It just feels like, whatever, what, you know, we've been throwing the seeds out, but it just doesn't seem to be landing on good soil. And so for whatever reason, people look at it and either go, look, that's great for you, but you know, that just sounds hard work or it sounds a little bit over the top.
It just sort of, it's never had the traction that I thought it might because, you know, we're trying to share. Look, hey, this works.
This is not just me saying this is one amongst many options.
This is the blueprint. This is the biblical blueprint for family. This will improve your family life. This will improve your marriage, this will improve your parenting. This will increase the chances of your kids remaining in Jesus and walking with the Lord for the rest of their days, you know, and not be one of the 80% of teenagers who are leaving the faith by the time they reach college.
But whatever tactic we use, for some reason it's just not getting the, getting the traction.
And so, you know, inevitably you're not getting that sharpening, you're not getting that, that, you know, as iron sharpens iron to one man sharpens another. You're not getting that encouragement, you're not getting that inspiration. You're always the one who's who's pulling, you're always the one at the front, who's dragging.
And so then I thought, well, it would be lovely to see you because, you know, I haven't seen you in over 20 years face to face. And it would also be lovely to just come and see what I'm hearing about, you know, what I'm hearing about on the A's Wallet podcast, what I'm hearing about the Found the Teams podcast and just come and see it and see what it's all about. And so, you know, the, I've seen the various different things. I've seen various mid rashes around the, around the city. I've seen the yams, I've seen three now on Thursday nights and I've visited some house churches, some sort of corporate services.
And I think, I think the overall themes that I've been struck by is how simplistic some of the programs are. Like when you turn to, you turn up to a midrash and you know, there's a facilitator who says, all right, we're going to read these two chapters and we maybe go around the table and everyone reads three or four verses each and then it's, the floor is open and guys talk and you go, well, that doesn't sound very difficult to pull off. You know, the program is not complicated. Same at yam, you know, with the young adult midrash. Not a complicated program, but it's the people, you know, that's, that's the key difference. It's these combination of families who together are saying, hey, we're in this together.
We're chasing this multi generational legacy thing. Who's with me? Like, are you, are you in? Yeah, I'm in. Well, let's do this together. Let's partner as families and encourage one another towards this because you know, it's like anything, like, even with exercise, you, you know, when you try and just exercise on your own. Yeah, you know, you might get so far with self discipline, self control, but boy, it helps if you've got. And may too is there at the gym every Tuesday morning. And you know, you gotta be there because there's an accountability. You don't let them down.
And, and also just seeing the yam, seeing how many teenagers there are, I mean, my girls are listening to me talk about that, going, oh wow, we would love to be part of something like that. You know, 50 teenagers who all are getting after Jesus and, and even just thinking, you know, ahead like a few years, marriage partners, you know, potential suitors, you Know, who are my girls going to marry? I want them to marry someone with this. With the same mindset.
[00:45:58] Speaker B: Yep.
[00:45:59] Speaker A: So, yeah, it's. I think I've been struck by how simplistic a lot of the. The programs are or the formats, very replicable. But. But the thing you can't replicate is, is the people, you know, and, and, you know, from what I've learned and understood, this has really been brewing and building and growing for what, last 20 years?
So there's, you know, the soil is very. You can see that the soil is very rich here. Very fertile ground. Lots of families now, I mean, I've met. I've probably met 50 families who are all walking, you know, walking with the Lord in this way. And, you know, I'm just sort of like going, just give me one. Like, I'll just take one.
[00:46:39] Speaker B: Sure.
[00:46:39] Speaker A: And that would be a great start. One who lives local, you know, to where I am. And so then the challenge is, you know, can you grow them? And, you know, yeah, you can give it a crack. Like I said at the start, I've been trying to grow them around me. I'm, you know, always saying, hey, you know, you should listen to A's wallet or Falatine's. Hey, read this book, you know, or, hey, let me, Let me share my story.
At the moment, it hasn't got much traction, but, you know, it won't stop us persevering in that and just constantly trying to encourage those around us to show interest. And hopefully if we can just generate some. Some momentum with a small community, then that might be a start. But, yeah, I'd say, and it's been very encouraging to be here.
And I guess the challenge is just whether people feel that they want to try and build and grow something from scratch, be pioneers where they are, versus do they join where God is already moving and working. I think that's always the tension or the challenge with these things.
[00:47:40] Speaker B: I'll just say this.
If anybody feels like, well, this is where my family is. I feel a calling to the area that I'm in, etc. You know, a lot of people have extended family where they are. And this is. These are my roots, this is where we are. And I'm trying to develop something that my parents didn't understand, they didn't pass it on to me. I'm trying to be a new patriarch.
And I would just say in that, that what comes to mind is there's a verse that said that. It's Proverbs 11:25, he who refreshes Others will himself be refreshed.
And I make a disciple differently now than I did when I first met Phil because I didn't understand the importance of this story and multi generational family and all that stuff. I didn't know that. I just know, let's follow Jesus, read our Bibles and follow Jesus and try to deal with the sin in our lives.
So I would now make a disciple.
And I do. And I'm spending time with even single guys and I'm telling them, you're going to be married, you're going to produce children, and you're going to be developing the kind of family that God is looking for.
You're going in time. I've been on the receiving end and I've been doing this long enough that now I actually have peers beside me and their children beside me. And they're disciples that I made.
And I'm seeing that verse come to pass.
He who refreshes others will himself be refreshed. And I didn't know 20 years ago that I would be making the disciples whose children would be candidates for marriage of my future children. Of course, I didn't know that. But the point is that the community that you're looking for is inside of you to make.
You can, you can be building that. And it's a slow roll. While you're talking, Phil, I'm thinking of the story of Hudson Taylor.
You can read his biography. It's incredible. He was a. He created the Inland China Mission and he was a missionary to China. When that was complete, he was like. He was like the first missionary to China. And he went there and did something that no English missionary had ever done before. And people thought he was nuts. He made himself into a Chinaman.
So he started wearing local garbage.
He wasn't trying to import his Englishness. He didn't create an English chapel. What he did was he became what these people are. He learned their language. And his first convert was nine years after he had turned up in China. I just can't imagine the dedication of this guy.
And my point is that if you feel called to an area and God's called you there, yes, you're going to be faithful with your family. Yes, your family is going to be strange in the area that you are. And you are going to till the soil around you faithfully.
And what you're going to turn into God on your report card is God. I was faithful. I just. I tried. I wanted to try to produce a disciple that I could make that would look like you. And I think that's the best that any of us can do is like, I wanted to be faithful, Lord, and I gave it a shot.
So I would say to you, Phil, if God calls you to stay in Australia for the next 20 years, then don't you. You're not allowed. I'm sorry. You're not allowed to become discouraged because you haven't produced the kind of disciple that you hope for yet. You just gotta keep going. We are not supposed to be discouraged. We're supposed to go, okay, Lord, everything that's happened in the past, maybe it didn't turn out the way that I hoped. I release that to you.
I want you to receive that as worship. I did that for you. Now let's open a new page. God, show me my Timothy. Who's the. Who's the man that you want me to build into? Maybe it's a kid that's 15 years old and it's not somebody that's 30 with kids, and you get to build his entire worldview out of. Out of nothing. You know, who knows? But anyways, I.
I'm going to wrap her up. And I just want to say I'm very grateful for your faithfulness over the years, Phil, when you didn't have encouragement around you. And I'm very grateful for you to give people the benefit of. Of your experience and what your. What your life is like. Anything else that you just. You just got to get out of here. You're going to explode.
[00:52:10] Speaker A: No, I agree that stewardship principle is very important, isn't it, that you see throughout the Bible that you've got to be faithful with what. What God has allotted to you, the, the people and the resources that he has entrusted to you. You've just got to be faithful with what you've got. And then God, obviously, you know, he often then entrusts you with more things. You know, that's the biblical principle. But you've got to be faithful in the little things first. And, and, yeah, I was just. I was thinking about, you know, what's been my takeaways from. From my visit here, and I think I've got to reiterate is, you know, for example, when I visited Shabbat dinners. No two Shabbat dinners have looked the same.
[00:52:47] Speaker B: Yep.
[00:52:48] Speaker A: And it's not this sort of high bar that guys might think we go, well, oh, that just sounds so hard. Because you've got to. You've got to memorize all these scriptures and all the liturgy, and it's very fluid, and there's a lot of grace Here. But the key thing is just getting around the table every week, you know, hopefully with a multigenerational family and, you know, just creating that weekly rhythm is a win to start with and then, you know, you might develop it in time. You know, we started with just, just the day trying to look different. And then I remember, I think we added lighting a candle at the start, you know, and then we saw. Then I started adding some of the language around, you know, Abraham and his story, you know, as the father of the faith. And then we added in communion, just slowly, slowly. But yeah, just starting with a simple rhythm. Even seeing Sukkot this week, you know, and just seeing the rhythms around that, again, not unachievable. I think that's the key thing. Guys need to look in and go, these things are not beyond you.
You are more than capable of creating these rhythms and just starting simple, start somewhere and then just in time, just grow it. Be faithful in small things and just grow it.
And then before you know it, after a few years, you'll have created some rhythms that feel dead easy and you'll be on your way. And, you know, that me seeing Saka, that's been part of the encouragement of being here. I've looked at this week and gone, yeah, I reckon next year I'm going to do that with my family. You know, we've not done that one yet. We've been looking at these biblical festivals and suddenly we've come here and seen, you know, Feast of Trumpets, Yom Kippur, Sukkot, and these are all things where you go, oh, look at the way that you can use these as an immersive experience with your family, to remember what God has done in the past and also to remember Jesus and also what's coming in the future. That's where we're at in our of journey as a family. And so we're going to pick up some of these next year and run with these. So, yeah, it's been very encouraging to be here and to see the rhythms of what going is, what, you know, is going on here. But I think everyone needs to be encouraged. You can definitely do this where you are and, yeah, just be bold and be faithful with what you've got and, and, and just invest, you know, weekly in these rhythms and your family will be transformed.
[00:55:02] Speaker B: That's excellent, Phil. So everybody piggyback on Phil Ronsley from Australia and just do what he did, which is run your home and your dough like a biblical boss. See you next time.
