Episode Transcript
[00:00:00] Speaker A: I'm encouraging everybody to audit the closet. The point isn't let's look like a million bucks. The point is I consider myself to be a serious man. I want to be seen as a serious husband by my wife, a serious father by my kids, a serious man by the Christian community around me.
Run your home and your dough like a biblical boss. Hello, gents, and welcome back to Abraham's Wallet, where we equip you to run your home and your dough like a biblical boss.
Mark, Recently, I say recently, it was a few months ago, did an episode on fashion and the response that we got made us think we need to revisit this. So we're going to talk a little bit more about that and we're going to hit why dressing like a grown up signals that you are throwing away childish ways.
It amplifies your ability to persuade outsiders. And we're going to give you some practical hacks on upgrading your wardrobe without breaking the bank, especially with December sales firing up. Let's get after it. Mark, it wasn't so very long ago that that fashion episode that you did with my stylist, can I call her my stylist? Ivy Costa aired.
What, what are your thoughts?
[00:01:19] Speaker B: So I told about in that episode that I had, I had had this kind of visceral reaction to being in a fancy restaurant and sort of sitting facing the door and watching guys come in dress like slobs and sluggards.
[00:01:35] Speaker A: Yes.
[00:01:35] Speaker B: And it kind of got me riled up. And I, I was thinking, have we just lost the art of presenting oneself with thoughtfulness and care and, and maybe even elevating an experience by the way that we choose our clothing, lots of these things. And I, I, we talked for a while in that episode about kind of my reactions.
I don't know if Ivy is coming from the same place that we're coming from on lots of things, but she did, she did have a lot to say about kind of the way that you think about clothing does communicate something.
And so that, that much we agreed on. What, what I think I remember from the episode is thinking Ivy clearly has a lot of experience working with people who might, you know, have a few thousand dollars to drop on clothing and they might be an executive speaking in front of a big audience. I don't know that Ivy has any experience with the 24 year old guy who's trying to maybe level up his entire presentation. Meaning he wants to look good, but he makes $65,000 a year. He's in an entry level job and fair the idea that he would go into a boutique. It was a little bit like, come on down to earth, my, my friend.
So there was some things that, that we wanted to go back on that episode and revisit because I think, you know, she did mention Old Navy. I liked that she said, there's like a new designer.
I don't really care about the designer. But the fact that something that's kind of affordable to most of us is in the, in the spectrum of acceptable to somebody who lives in the world of high fashion, that was an encouraging moment in the podcast. Yes.
I think that the interesting thing to me is this, this episode triggered more reactions.
And it's very interesting that the negative reactions came to us digitally because I think they came from the younger generation, largely meaning people who said, our good buddy, one of our good buddies on ur, you're going to have to go sign on to UR and become a supporter of this podcast if you want to find out who this was and argue with them. But they said, mark, you're a psychopath. I spend $15 a year on clothing.
And that's what he said.
[00:04:10] Speaker A: I heard him say that.
[00:04:11] Speaker B: And you might say that's, that's an exaggeration. Nobody spends 15 a year on clothing. But to his credit, we've never seen this guy post a video response to us in which he was wearing anything. Closed.
[00:04:24] Speaker A: Yeah. Yeah. So this guy's name is Vinnie. And Vinnie has definitely convinced me that if you don't wear any clothes, your clothing budget can be quite low.
[00:04:38] Speaker B: Yeah. So, yeah, there were people who said this is the most unrelatable you guys have ever been just talking about, whatever, spending 500 on shoes or something like that. Yeah, there was one comment that we're going to get to on YouTube. I don't know who it was from because they have some sort of wild handle that doesn't translate into a name.
But, but, but we're going to talk about that one. That said, I actually think you guys have fallen off into the ditch of vanity here.
[00:05:06] Speaker A: Yes, yes.
[00:05:08] Speaker B: And I also got a lot of messages from, let's say the 50 and up crowd that listens to our podcast saying, bro, I have been thinking this for years and I am so glad that you told these man childs that walk around to stop dressing like children, because that's, I was talking yesterday to our mutual buddy Mark Douglas, and he said, I was t. I, I, I said something to a friend in a church meeting and said, why is that guy dressed like a child? And they said, well, no, that's $1,000 set of sneakers. And that is a fancy, like, designer T shirt. He goes, I don't care how much it costs. He's dressed like a child. He is dressed like a seventh grade boy.
And so there's a piece of that.
So that's what we want to do today, I think, is kind of talk to both of those things. My hope is that we can express a little bit more our heart of what we were trying to get at in that first episode and maybe fill in some of the gaps that were left by that episode, which is how do you approach this topic in a way that exudes biblical.
[00:06:21] Speaker A: Yes.
[00:06:22] Speaker B: Stewardship of your money while also having some stewardship of just your personal presentation? Yeah, yeah, that's my take.
[00:06:30] Speaker A: Yeah. I mean, I thought you said this very well in your introduction to the first episode. But I'll say again that the reason that we're. We're commenting at all is because we think that there's a problem in the Christian community. And, and when I look at my younger brothers in the faith, there is something that is being overlooked. And I don't think that anybody's ever sat down with them in a fatherly way and just spoken to them about these things. So it's not that I think that clothing is the most important thing in the whole world.
It's that we put out a weekly podcast and we get to touch on 52 things in a year, and we've been doing it for six years.
So I think it's 1,350th of your life. I do think that about the way that you dress and how it communicates your. Your Christian witness. So I think it's probably worth some attention. And if you think that the talking about clothing is the most offensive and the most shallow thing you can think of, well, you're just press the little forward button and go to the next podcast in your list. That's no problem.
But we're going to talk about it. I think the dudes I spend time with need to hear this. So we're going to proceed. I'm going to make my first point. Mark, you've seen my outline. I'm going to trust you to chip in your hot sports opinions.
[00:07:56] Speaker B: Where.
[00:07:56] Speaker A: Where is apropos. Are you ready?
[00:07:58] Speaker B: Let's do it.
[00:07:59] Speaker A: My first point is this. And I'm going to use. I'm going to use the Bible to back up my points. So, you know, hear me out. Here's my first point. The way that you dress can signal that you're a man on a mission, not a boy at playtime.
So here's my statement to back that up. As Abrahamic leaders, we run our homes and dough like biblical bosses, starting with how we show up.
I remember back to my days. I got a communications degree and I remember taking an entire class on nonverbal communication. I learned a lot that stays with me to this day. One of the things that was so shocking to me in that class because I'm a Christian, I'm impacted by the word of God and God looks at the heart and I'm a spiritual person, is that we all make flash judgments. When we see somebody, we can decide in one second what we think of their character, what we think of their integrity, what we think of their earning power, whether we trust them or not. It's amazing. And we actually, we've seen studies where you take a picture of two candidates and you're forced to say which of these people is more likely to lie. And you think to yourself, I don't they don't they both. I don't know, I don't think they're going to lie. No, no, no. Pick which one of them is more likely.
Okay, I guess this guy. And if you walk through, it's amazing the variety of things that you actually find yourself. Okay, well I do, I do make that judgment based on the way this person looks. I'm looking at their skin tone. Like, is their skin clear? I'm looking at, do they look shaven? I'm looking at their haircut, I'm looking at, and we're looking at bust shots of people. So we're looking at chest up, we're looking at collars. It's not a lot of information.
The point is what they found from these studies. We are 93% accurate at the judgments that we make like that on people.
And this doesn't, this doesn't make us bad. It actually makes us, it's, it's just one of forms of our intelligence is that we look at people, we make a snap judgment about them and we're usually correct in the judgments that we make internally and subconsciously about these people.
So as an Abrahamic leader, we're going to take seriously the fact that that happens. It happens to me. Everywhere I go. People are making snap judgments about me and they're deciding, do I think this person is trustworthy or not?
And dressing sharp. And we can talk about what that means. But like dressing with care, let's say, declares I'm serious about my God given responsibilities of leading my Family, stewarding my resources and advancing the kingdom. There's a way to dress that says, I'm not serious about my God given responsibilities.
Just stop. Just ignore the way that I look, ignore the way that I speak, ignore my breath, ignore my hair, and trust me, I'm serious about my God given responsibilities. And we actually put an onus on other people. So here's my verse and I'll let you react. I'm going to give you two verses.
First Timothy 2, 9 and 10. Likewise, women should adorn themselves in respectable apparel with modesty and self control, not with braided hair and gold or pearls or costly attire. Listen to what he says. But with what is proper for women who profess godliness.
And then it goes on to talk about their good works.
He's saying the way that women look shouldn't violate their. Their heart and their mission. And you said, very well, it's true of us as well. The way that we look shouldn't be in violation or in contradiction to what we say is our goal. So fellas, I think we have to choose clothes that honor our calling and not perpetually casual clothes that scream, hey, I'm a laid back slacker. I have another verse, but I'll go to you, Mark.
[00:12:13] Speaker B: Yeah. I think that maybe some of what we're saying right here in this point got lost when we threw out some comment, especially again from Ivy, who works with people for whom this is actually a budget option. I said it in the episode, but. But like, oh, you could just go to Nordstrom and buy something off the rack. Well, I've been to Nordstrom and I puked when I saw the prices on the off the rack stuff.
[00:12:42] Speaker A: Yes.
[00:12:43] Speaker B: I don't think at all that you cannot be serious and thoughtful about how you present yourself while shopping at Goodwill.
I have been in a thrift store where all the shirts are $3 recently, and I thought to myself, I could make a wardrobe out of this that looked smart 100%.
And likewise, like I said just at the opening, you can spend $2,500 on street wear and look like a boy and communicate something that might say, I'm rich. It might tell the world I'm rich.
[00:13:20] Speaker A: Right.
[00:13:20] Speaker B: But it doesn't tell the world I'm serious.
[00:13:23] Speaker A: That's right.
[00:13:24] Speaker B: And you know, I think one of the comments that we got said, why are you trying to tell. I'm paraphrasing.
But why. Why are we trying to. To fit in with the world, look like the world. In fact, Romans 12 says that we should specifically not look like the rest of the world. And our commenter was definitely not saying that this just means, you know, don't wear the same clothes as the world. He clarified that, so give him credit. Yeah, but our goal is not to stay on trend. That was if, if we communicated that in the last episode.
I apologize to you, listener, because that is not what I want.
I think if we were a bunch of bros sitting around a campfire, we would all have equal fun and ridicule for the high fashion goofy stuff that you see celebrities wearing down the red carpets.
Like zero interest in that. Yeah, I do think though that there is a difference in just taking the time to figure out what. What fits me. For example, Ivy, I think it, again, I think it got lost with some of the money stuff that got thrown around. But she did say the most important thing is does it fit you?
And I felt self conscious because I was sitting here on the Zoom call and looking and going, I think maybe my shirt is too big in this call right now.
But you know, I, I think that it's more about thoughtfulness and care that, like you said, you had a car that was probably worth 2, $800, Steve, before you bought your current ride. Yeah, it was always spotlessly clean on the inside. I said in the car when you took me somewhere, that old Nissan. And I thought this is a pleasant car to take a ride in up until the moment that it stopped running.
[00:15:20] Speaker A: But yeah, that wasn't that pleasant when.
[00:15:22] Speaker B: It was doing its job as a car. Yeah, just the fact that it had been cared for with thought made it pleasant to ride in. And I think the same is true of clothes. We're not out here saying, you better go spend some money on clothes so that you can keep up and show people that you're a man who's got some cash.
[00:15:41] Speaker A: Right.
[00:15:41] Speaker B: Not what we're saying. We're saying we want no carefulness and thoughtfulness so that you can be taken seriously. And our commenter had had thoughts on that too. But I'll wait until you get down your list before we chip on on that.
[00:15:54] Speaker A: Yeah, no, nobody said the goal is for you to spend more on your clothes. Matter of fact, before this episode is over, we're going to give you some specific tips on saving money on your clothes. What we are encouraging is that you are thoughtfully dressed and that you dress in sync with who you are as a man on mission. 1 Corinthians 16:13 says. You might have heard this verse, be watchful, stand firm in the faith, act like men and be Strong.
So there's the idea of growing up in seriousness. So acting like men means showing up with purpose and it means acting with poise and your worth and your wardrobe should reflect that gritty, godly resolve.
I got a little stat for you. Studies show that well dressed professionals are 25% more likely to earn trust and respect from peers and clients.
So if you have a conversation with an executive, you might think, ah, this guy's smart. I don't, I don't even thinking about the way he's dressed.
But when you sit in a room of executives and people present as together, this guy's with it, he's sharply dressed.
They earn more respect just by the way they look from both peers and clients. So I just have to say your clothing, it's not about vanity. As Mark said, they're tools for influence. And you are influencing people one way or another. They are making judgments about what you wear.
We don't exist on a spiritual plane where we just. I just think he's an honest person and I can't even see what he looks like. No, that's not true. We can all see what people look like. So I, I'm going to give you this challenge right up front here to audit your closet.
I remember doing this years ago.
It wasn't that long ago in my life. It may be maybe 10 or 15 years ago was the first time this happened. And I mean this. And I'm going to repeat this before we're done.
Fellas, I encourage you to go through your closet. And my question is, does your daily uniform scream reliable patriarch or loves to party like it's time to get rid of your junk sneakers and your unworn fading T shirts. I think it's time for you to throw out now.
I'll speak for myself too. I mean we, we got some pushback when Ivy was talking about undershirts or even socks or underwear. And guys are thinking, whose business is is that, what does that even matter? I can tell you two people that those pieces of clothing affect. One is you. Because it changes the way that you think of yourself.
Like, it doesn't matter what I wear. I, I, who cares?
Self, self respect is actually a thing to, to feel like I, I am a man of God. I'm going to dress like a man of God. These socks are shot. I'm, I'm done. I need. These need to go. I'm encouraging all of you fellows to go through the drawers and go. These socks need to go. The underwear needs to go. Who's going to see my underwear. Person number two, the wife, she sees your undershirt and your underwear and your socks, and I'm just challenging you that dressing like a slob and anything goes isn't. It is not the perfect setup for, like, a wife who really respects you and wants your body. You know, that's not. It's just not the greatest thing. So I remember that when I first talked. Talked about this with my wife, and I'm pulling things out of the. I'm pulling things out of the drawer for the first time. I've never had this conversation with her. Would you be happy if I got rid of this? Oh, my goodness.
I've been complaining about that shirt forever. Oh, you have? I wasn't really paying attention. No, you weren't paying attention because you. You had a Great Weekend in 1993 that you wanted to commemorate with this T shirt. So it's time for that to go, etc.
I'm encouraging everybody to audit the closet and get rid of junk. The point isn't. Let's look like a million bucks. The point is I'm a serious man. I consider myself to be a serious man. I want to be seen as a serious husband by my wife, a serious father by my kids, a serious man by the Christian community around me.
[00:20:34] Speaker B: Before you move on from that, I mean, one of the lines. And I don't.
[00:20:39] Speaker A: I.
[00:20:39] Speaker B: Again, I don't know our commenter's name, but he was excited already. We got a Robbie.
We got a retort from Robbie. Already said, we're gonna. We're gonna chop this one up on the pod. He said, awesome. I'm looking forward to it. So I think we have permission from Robbie to.
[00:20:57] Speaker A: I think we have. Yeah, sure.
[00:20:58] Speaker B: To. To quote him. And yeah, he said. One of the things he said is it's a dangerous line when you use the concept of quote, quote, appealing to man to back up your arguments. Because I brought up the. The idea that, you know, Jesus taught us to use unrighteous wealth to purchase friends effectively, to. To win friends. That's true. And I understand there. There's truth to what Robbie says.
I live in Utah. There's. There's Christian churches here who. Their shtick. To be at peace with their Mormon neighbors is to say we're all the same. And I'm not gonna say. I'm not gonna talk about the parts of our religions that are totally incompatible. I'm going to just say whatever, you know, appeals to you so that you will love being around me and we can have joint Barbecues.
There's that. I think there's. Even if we look at world leaders, I'm still probably once every three hours, think about the Charlie Kirk example, because that's still on my mind. And he was both incredibly loving and welcoming to people who were very different. But 0% of the time, did he say, I'm going to say something to compromise the truth in order to get you to like me more. So we're not interested in saying, you know, you need to look good enough that the world will, will just approve of you. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I don't care about approval.
I do. However, I think we've all known people who are either intentionally trying to communicate some countercultural narrative by saying, I mean saying, I just don't care about clothes and so I'm going to intentionally look like a slobber. And if you don't listen to what I have to say, well, that's your loss, because I'm really smart.
I think there's just as much pride in that as the person who gets sucked into the vortex of, you know, coiffing their hair for 30 minutes before they leave the mirror and go out into the world and they think about what everybody else is thinking about them all the time. Sigh on that.
But I do think it is.
I mean, you and I, Steve, we've both been listening to this series of videos on just culture and the way it is.
[00:23:22] Speaker A: Oh yeah.
[00:23:23] Speaker B: Drifting towards really lower class culture. I don't want to give too much away because I think we might record like multiple episodes on this topic. Yeah, but, but one thing that he says is he's talking about clothing. And we all see this.
The upper class is increasingly dressing like the lower class right now, like as a badge of honor. Um, true. But if we rewind 150 years in the United States. I don't remember if you might know this because I might have already asked you, but do you know what percentage of someone's gross take home pay someone spent on clothing 150 years ago in the United States?
[00:24:03] Speaker A: What is it, Mark?
[00:24:04] Speaker B: It's 15.
Wow. And so put that number on whatever you earned a year. If you earn $100,000. At first I was like, well, 1500 bucks. And I'm like, wait, that's 1.5%. $15,000 a year going to close. Because clothing was something that spoke volumes about your intents.
Absolutely. Go look at paintings of the founding fathers and they were always wearing something that some craftsman had labored over for a lot of time and that was expensive. Now listen, YouTube commenters, we're not telling you to spend 15% of your income on clothes. We're going to tell you how to spend less of your income on clothes. So I'm not. The point here is not a financial one. It is a, it was so valuable the way that one presented themselves in society in order to have a seat at the table amongst other serious men that people thought it was worth a high price. And today it's like we're trying to counter, signal that, like I am, I am. Maybe it's a pride thing, I'm smart enough to, you'll have to take me seriously. Even if I show you that I'm not serious with my external appearance. I don't know.
But I did want to kind of oppose that notion that what we're telling you to do is just appeal to the world. Like try to make yourself palatable to the world, know, and, and there's a lot of, a lot of fashion things that we would go. You should laugh and point when you see that.
But I think being smart with the way you present yourself, taking some time, whether that's in the aisles of your local goodwill or at the tailors, I don't really care. My point is taking some time and being thoughtful about this is not incompatible with being a completely sold out disciple of Jesus.
[00:25:56] Speaker A: I'm thinking, well, the next point that I wanted to make is right on par with what you're saying, which is that we have a responsibility to persuade the people around us and our look is part of that. I'm talking, I talked before about being serious and seeing myself with some kind of dignity and self respect. There's also a persuasion factor. So our, the way that we look is part of how we persuade others.
I'm thinking of, let's say a doctor walks into your examination room. You're waiting on the doctor, he walks in, he has a, he has an unbuttoned, untucked shirt, flannel shirt, he's got a three day growth beard, his hair's a mess, you can hear, you can smell his bad breath. He just obviously got up, woke up, drank some coffee and here he is.
He's all over the place. Let me just ask you, how much do you trust him with the diagnosis you're about to hear?
You're thinking, this guy's a, this guy's a mess, man. However he slid into this day, that's probably however he slid through medical school.
I don't know that I trust this guy.
Listen, if the way that you present to the people around you is that I'm like, I want to be as comfortable as possible at all times.
I, I'm almost cartoonishly, like clownily sloppy with my dress.
But I want you to trust me on the most important thing in life, which is what you do with your eternal to destiny and how you have a relationship with God. Would you take me seriously on that one, please?
And they're thinking, I don't know what you're doing with your life. It's hard for me to trust you. I just, I just want to underline that for people that Paul says in 2nd Corinthians 5:11, Therefore, knowing the fear of the Lord, we persuade others.
And he says elsewhere, I'm trying to do everything I can to persuade others. So if your gem shorts dilute the grit and the, the, the, the truth of the gospel that you're trying to share, then it's not helping you. And, and you should change it before you move on. Yeah.
[00:28:15] Speaker B: Think about this. When you go have dinner with somebody. If a, if a grown man says, you know, I'm gonna have Kraft Mac and cheese tonight while you guys have this fancy meal, you go, you're, you're eating like a child. And the verse you're about to read, Stephen.
[00:28:33] Speaker A: Yes.
[00:28:34] Speaker B: Is it speaks directly to this and we tend to spiritualize it. Well, Paul's just talking about like, don't just do the basic Sunday school Jesus Bible knowledge stuff when you're adult. No, he's talking about the way we think, the way we speak, the way we solve problems. And so read this verse. And then I have to, I have to tell an anecdote about a famous guy that didn't quite get this.
[00:29:02] Speaker A: Okay.
Paul says in First Corinthians 13, It's a love chapter. All this things about what love is like. And then right at the end of it in verse 11, Paul says, when I was a child, I spoke like a child, I thought like a child, I reasoned like a child.
When I became a man, I gave up childish ways.
There's many, many applications to this verse. One of them is, at some point you have to ditch the all nighters on call of duty and monster drinks. At some point you, you go like, seeing how fast I can drive for the thrill of it and collecting speeding tickets. I got to put that away at some point. You know, I used to. One of my go tos in my basketball playing days in college and thereafter was the T shirt with the cutoff sleeves. Made a great fit for basketball. There comes a point where Maybe I can get away with mowing my lawn in those and no more.
[00:30:05] Speaker B: So.
[00:30:07] Speaker A: Again, this is about persuading others. And if they have something to overcome before I can persuade them, I'm not doing the gospel a favor with my clothing.
[00:30:16] Speaker B: Do you remember the Christian teacher? And I think he did a lot of apologetics. His name was Josh McDowell, of course.
[00:30:25] Speaker A: More than a carpenter.
[00:30:27] Speaker B: Yeah. And so he had a daughter like real late in life. So he was actually probably in his 60s when his daughter was going to high school with me. She was a year or two younger than me at our high school. And Josh McDowell was kind of a Christian celebrity. He, he would go speak at big conferences and he had, like you said, sold millions of books.
[00:30:49] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:30:51] Speaker B: And something happened when we were in high school that Josh McDowell decided, I'm gonna start appealing to the kids with my dress. Oh, and back then this meant Tommy Hilfiger jean shorts that were like humongous legs and came down about 4 to 5 inches above the top of the high top sneakers.
[00:31:16] Speaker A: Oh no.
[00:31:16] Speaker B: So like a good solid six to eight inches below the knee.
[00:31:20] Speaker A: Oh, no.
[00:31:22] Speaker B: And a triple XL. Now Josh McDowell is not a big guy. A triple XL.
Maybe Tommy Hilfiger or Ralph Lauren Polo that didn't, you know, we talked about fit. This is like really ridiculous. And like bright red, like huge flashy colors, maybe some chromed out gold sunglasses.
[00:31:45] Speaker A: Oh, no.
[00:31:46] Speaker B: And, and it was so jarring that at first you thought, oh, this is like a bit. It's a joke. Maybe this is what's happening. And then after months of seeing this guy cruising around, you know, parents events and things, you realize this is not a joke. This is somebody who is out of step with how to present oneself in sort of a cultural setting. And again, because I love you, Robbie. I'm going back to your comments.
[00:32:12] Speaker A: Yeah, please do it.
[00:32:14] Speaker B: One of the things you said was when I hear a discussion on what's in style, I just shake my head and can't help but feel that it's fruitless. Nobody actually believes that. You know, if you really don't care what's in style. I would see more people walking around with a tunic on and they would say, this is what I find to be most functional. Or you know, you could fall into the trap we just talked about with sweats.
What's in style is a function of life stage.
It's totally cute when a 18 month old little toddler boy wears a little jumper.
You know, that's, that's just a cute little jumpsuit. It would look so weird. If I showed up to a client meeting wearing an oshkosh b' gosh jumper, I don't think it would work. And so again, there's a ditch on this. It's like if we're trying to be hyper relevant, we've had Ben from Preachers and Sneakers on and it. Yes, it's kind of that same thing we're saying in an effort to be hyper relevant and hip. What has happened is ministers of the gospel have actually made themselves look kind of like fools.
[00:33:27] Speaker A: Absolutely.
[00:33:29] Speaker B: It's still endemic. I went to a church meeting the other day and some pastor showed up in this acid wash jean jacket that was way too small for him. And I thought, what are we doing here?
So we're not saying follow the trends that you might be able to share the gospel. We're saying, I feel like I just keep saying the same thing. But there is a place for adultness in the way you present yourself. And I think that the scripture backs that up and even Paul backs it up.
The world cares a lot. What are you on trend? Are you matching? You know, what else are you going to spend your money on? You got nothing better to spend your money on than looking like the coolest thing you possibly could. Whereas in the kingdom we say spending money is not a sin. We're not supposed to spend the minimal amount of money we can to stay alive. And one of the things that might be good to spend money on is communicating a, a true message about who we are and what we are coming to offer as we, as we dress. So that's right.
[00:34:37] Speaker A: Okay.
The next thing I want to say is that this is kind of to Vinnie's point at er, which is that things are not one size fits all when it comes to a clothing budget or the clothing that you wear.
So you have the responsibility and the right to tailor your budget smart style in a way that honors your responsibilities and your relationships. So clothing, clothing spending scales with your season in life and your position in life.
So not every man needs a $3,500 suit. But you should invest where it counts based on your, your career stage and your income and your duties.
If you are managing a mechanic shop as a 30 year old, clean work pants and polos that fits the bill and you can present as sharp and put together.
Great.
[00:35:40] Speaker B: That's not appropriate.
[00:35:41] Speaker A: If you're a bank VP looking for promotion, you need a sharp three piece suit that whispers to everybody that sees you. I'm ready for the promotion. I'm, I'm ready. And, and that seems obvious enough, but that we don't think in, in those terms when it comes to most of our life, that I'm, I'm going to be dressing based on my responsibilities and where I think I'm going. And let me insert here, gentlemen. Where I want every one of you to think that you're going is eldership in the church of God. That's where I want you going. I, I, I have a vision for you. If you don't have one for yourself, which is when you're 55, 60 years old, I want all of the families around you to elbow each other and go, if you need some advice on how to lead a godly family, go talk to Bob over there. Bob's got it together. And I want, when they do that, when they elbow the person, they go, who? Bob? Where, who is Bob? Which one's Bob?
I don't want them to go, the guy in the bull's jersey over there with, with the mullet and the earring. That's, that's not going to work. There's got, I don't know what that look needs to look like, but you need to look respectable. I'm going to quote first Timothy 3, 4 and 5, which is about eldership.
And Paul writes, he must manage his own household well, with all dignity, keeping his children submissive, because if someone doesn't know how to manage his own household, how could he possibly care for God's church?
So managing your household, surely fellas, it's it that includes the management of yourself and knowing how to present yourself with dignity. Your attire sets the tone for leadership at home and beyond. So I'd like to address, we're going to get very practical. I'd like to address three areas where you have to present yourself with dignity.
Ready? Number one, I'd like to talk about date nights. Again. We're thinking of how do I present myself to my wife?
Do I look like a guy that takes himself seriously to my wife? So it's not whatever's clean.
We want to show our wives that she's cherished this evening matters.
And she's more important than me being super comfy in my snuggly PJs.
So putting love in action means that I want her to smile more than I need to wear sweatpants out on a, on a date night. I'm going to do up, I'm going to make sure that I'm shaven. If I can schedule the haircut before the date night, I'm going to do that.
I want to look, I want to look respectable to the woman who's most important, that she respects me. She's the, she's the number one person in my whole life that I want to respect me. And so I want to put some attention toward that. So date nights or, you know, anytime that you're with the wife.
Number two. I'd like to underline church meetings. Can I get up in everybody's lap real quick?
I do live in the real world. I know what people are like. I'm in plenty of church meetings. When the church gathers.
There's actually rules in the Bible about what happens when the church gathers. And Paul says, I want it to look like this and this, I'm not turning into a legalist that says no T shirts when the church gathers. But I, I do think that there's something about, if you're going to worship, we're going to worship before God.
Again. I'm, this is imagining that I'm putting my arm around a 21 year old that just doesn't know any better. And I'm going, you need to look different than a Saturday picnic when you're coming into worship among God's people. I think there's something to, I don't, I can't, I don't know how to be more specific than to just put it in quotes and say, dressing up.
I don't know what that means exactly. Dressing up. For me, it doesn't mean shorts, T shirt and flip flops.
If you are screaming the fact that I got specific like that and you go, this is out of bounds. This is not in the Bible. You're not allowed to tell people what they can wear in the presence of God.
Then I'm going to, I'll put, I can put the conch down. I walk away. Fine. You don't have to listen to me. Again, I'm thinking that I'm talking to a young man that actually wants my input. I want him to grow up into an elder. I want him to be respected among the community. And I want him to communicate that the reading of the word of God, the teaching of the word of God, the worship of God matters to him. That, that it's worth putting a little bit of care into.
Is there, do I have a Bible verse on this? No. Is this my one man's experience and opinion? Yes, it is. But I'll give you the opinion it's not the gospel, but it's my opinion as an, as an aging man in the church who has some experience. So anything you want to Say about date nights or church meetings. Because it's got one more area.
[00:40:45] Speaker B: Give me number three. I'm going to give you one comment and then we're going to get to hacks.
[00:40:50] Speaker A: Okay. My, my other area is travel.
You and I have talked about dressing for travel before.
I don't wear shorts on, on an airplane. I don't wear shorts when I'm traveling and I don't wear sweatpants ever. I wear sweatpants if I am lazing on a Sabbath in my suka.
I wear sweatpants when I'm going to play pickleball and it's cold outside.
Otherwise I don't wear those things.
Maybe, maybe Christmas Eve night with the family. But let me ask you this question. Who are you going to meet? Who are you going to sit beside on the airplane for your business trip?
I know. You don't know. You don't know. Who are you going to meet that you need to.
That might turn into a business client, that might turn into somebody that you have a deep conversation with. And what do you know? I need to lay hands on this person and pray for the healing of their generations. Is that going to happen to you on your next flight?
I don't know. Yeah, I know you don't know.
Well, they can just take me as I am. Yes, they can take you as you are. That's true. But let's go back to the doctor that walks into the office looking like a slob because his only thought is, how could I be the most comfortable at all times?
I'm just not going to trust that guy. So I want to put out a message when I travel that I'm, I'm someone that's trustworthy and I don't want the way that I look to violate that. So there are, there are those three areas.
And so maybe you don't like me being specific, but I, I'm. I think it's worth calling those out.
[00:42:37] Speaker B: Yeah, I think that's good. I just wanted to.
Before we jump into specific hacks.
[00:42:42] Speaker A: Yes.
[00:42:42] Speaker B: Address the last two comments that Ravi made.
Because one, I think we need to clarify, the other we can debate.
He says, when he says, don't look like the rest of the world, he says, I know this is mostly in our actions and lifestyle, but also in our appearance.
Then he said, why sacrifice a well functioning, timeless suit for something that's in style or in.
I would say, don't do that. If you have come to the realization that you're that guy who needs a nice suit and you know, you can go to the department store and get a suit and get it kind of tucked in and tailored to you for, I don't know, four or five hundred bucks.
And if that's a big investment for you and you need a nice suit, buy one that's going to last you as long as possible. Meaning if there's a new trend in suits and it's like a funky lapel and it's really out there, terrible idea. If you're buying a suit to wear to work and this needs to last you for a while.
Now if you wear a suit every day and you have 20 of them because that's the type of role you're in, I don't know, there's not that many of those roles left in the world. But if that was you and you have the, the means to, to try some more edgy things, fine. Again, keeping in mind what you're trying to communicate.
But we are not saying go find the latest trends and do them so that people will like.
[00:44:10] Speaker A: Absolutely not.
[00:44:11] Speaker B: And so I just wanted to clear that up. The other comment I just wanted to respond to before we move on was this question, are we truly trying to live out God's truth? Are we trying to find ways to accentuate our already unnecessary sneaker and watch collections?
Are we just teaching our hobbies?
And this was on er, on our, our video chats, people were like, what were you talking about, Mark, when you said something about crazy expensive watches? $40,000 watch.
Those exist. They're not fashion accessories, they're investments.
I don't have any of them. But if you're in that stratosphere, most of the time you're selling those products for more than you paid for them after time.
It's like putting a gold bar in your safe. Now you can certainly, if you don't know what you're doing, get hosed and things like that. But that's a different thing.
For the most part. I said, you can go.
Facebook targeted me with a new automatic watch from Timex. And I think it was 59.
And I thought, that is a really good looking watch. It's an automatic. It's kind of interesting from a mechanical standpoint. And it's $59. And if me as a watch guy, I saw somebody wearing it, I go, that's really cool.
No shame at all in doing something like that. So I don't think you need to go out and spend a ton of money on a watch. Just to clarify that specific one.
[00:45:32] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:45:33] Speaker B: So much so that I had a watch collection and I sort of went, I'm not going to collect watches anymore. I am angling to have three really nice ones. And for me, really nice means they might be worth $1,000, not $20,000. And I'm gonna hand those off to the guys that my daughters marry someday.
That's just something I want to do. You don't have to do that. And it's not a fashion thing.
Sneakers, I have really been questioning lately, and mostly because of this concept we were discussing about people that have more means intentionally dressing down and trying to look like people who have less means. I think there's something to that in the sneaker world. But I kind of agree that unless these are investments and we can debate whether they're good investments or not.
I kind of agree with the commenter on that one and say maybe we should mostly stop wearing sneakers. I talked about it in the episode that seeing a guy with a suit on and a pair of Nike sneakers makes me want to puke. It's not cool, but that's just my opinion. I don't have a Bible verse that says you should or shouldn't wear sneakers.
I just comment on, you know what?
[00:46:46] Speaker A: You're allowed questions. You're allowed to share your opinions.
So I believe I can't. It's hard for me to put an age on this because I distinctly remember that my first suit that I wore to the suit I'm gonna be talking about is weddings and funerals. The suit that I wore was something that I was in a wedding, and I was given a suit for being in the wedding, and I wore that suit for 15 years afterwards.
I just. Here's something I believe. You know what? There's a. Not a better. Not a better episode for me to say this on.
By gum, I believe that men of God should be wearing a suit to weddings and funerals. There I said it.
Wear a suit to weddings and funerals. Be.
Be a leader among the community of God and look like one.
So there I'm throwing that out. That would mean that you need to have a black or a navy suit.
It can be very basic.
I'm thinking of two places that sell suits. And the reason that we're doing this episode now is because, guess what? We're coming into holiday sales. And you know what's even better than a holiday sale?
New Year's sales, when they're starting to move on from all of the stuff in inventory.
There were years of my married life when. When money was tight and we said, we're going to do Christmas presents in the new year. Because around the 5th of January to like the 12th, there are radical sales that happen.
If you were to go to. I'm going to name the places. The men's warehouse started in Houston, Texas. The men's warehouse. Or you got separates on sale from J. Crew. J. Crew has a couple of basic suits and you can, and you can buy all sorts of sizes of pants and then you can buy all sorts of sizes of jackets and you just buy them separately and they look like a suit.
If you did that at the end of this year and in January and got yourself a dark suit that you can wear to weddings and funerals, it will significantly up your game as far as just looking like a respectable leader. That's what I think. That's one man's opinion. So I'm throwing that in about suits. Do you have something else about suits? Because I want to move to unders.
[00:49:17] Speaker B: When I got a job, my first job out of college, they told me you cannot wear a two piece suit to this job. We will not accept you into the office. You must wear a three piece suit every day to work. And so I was broke and I went to Joseph A. Bank and not a bad quality suit. I had it for a lot of years back to that point of timelessness.
Right now you can go to josephabank.com and buy a navy, black, gray or khaki suit for $199.
Not cheap. But that would get, that would check the box. It would be pretty classic and it would last you a long time.
[00:49:59] Speaker A: You know what I just gotta throw out there?
When you think of what are you asking your parents for instance, for birthday gifts?
I mean, I don't know what that is for you. If you're a 30 year old man, you got a couple of kids and you know, you might have an uncle that gives you a birthday gift. I don't know, you've got a brother in law.
If you put it out there. What I really need is a new dark suit for weddings and funerals. I don't have a dark suit.
That that alone would be so unusual to just say this is something I'm in the market for.
I think that'd be a great move.
Okay, great. You said Joseph a bank. That's great. Mark?
[00:50:44] Speaker B: Yes.
[00:50:44] Speaker A: Changing topics dramatically from suits. What's your favorite underwear?
[00:50:50] Speaker B: Built bylt.
[00:50:52] Speaker A: Okay.
How much is a pair of built underwear? Yeah.
[00:50:56] Speaker B: Now you're calling me out because I only have one pair because I think they're really expensive. Let's see, they sent me a Free pair when I bought a shirt from them once. Okay, let's see. Wait, here we go.
[00:51:09] Speaker A: But you're very impressed by them.
[00:51:11] Speaker B: Built underwear on sale right now for $22.50 a pair.
[00:51:16] Speaker A: Okay.
[00:51:17] Speaker B: Substantially more than the 12 pack of Puma underwear at Costco.
[00:51:22] Speaker A: Okay, now listen, I'm. Okay, that's one reference I have a strong reco on when it comes to underwear. I'm a fan of the boxer brief. Is that what the built? Of course.
Yeah, you gotta, you gotta go to the boxer brief.
I don't know what year that changed, but it changed at some point and it's gotta be the boxer brief. So I really like the brand Meundies and what I really liked about me undies was the micro micro modal fabric.
So what I found is that you can get the same micro modal fabric and you can get it.
Hanes sells of a three pack of micro modal boxer briefs. Me undies I think are $34 a pop.
You can get twelve dollar three pack at Walmart, Target or Amazon of micro modal boxer briefs for $12. Three pack.
Hello.
So guys, if you have junky undies, get rid of them. Get some new ones.
Socks, let's talk about socks.
Amazon Essentials is the best place to get crew socks that are durable and cushioned. And they are, they are $15 for a six pack. Whatever color you want. That's where you should buy your socks. I'll just tell you they're better longevity than big box generics.
If you need work socks because you're on your feet, get them from Darn Tough and get the Merino blend.
They are 15 bucks a pair. So if you're on, if you're on your feet a lot and you need good durable ones, get them from Darn Tough. There are no blisters, etc. That socks. I'm moving on to undershirts. Okay, Undershirts. Now we're moving into the seasonal stuff. Okay. So undershirts, I believe in crisp white cruise that last. I'm not. I'm wearing a navy thing right now.
Hanes does a six pack or you can do Amazon Essentials. $15 for a six pack. They're affordable, they're tagless. You know, you don't get a scratchy neck thing and they stay bright. And I. This is my opinion. If you wear undershirts regularly because you wear button up shirts, you should be changing those out annually. That's what I think.
Anything you want to say about socks or undershirts?
[00:53:57] Speaker B: I just bought Some undershirts on sale from True Classic, which is like a, I guess they're kind of in between the cheapest option of Hanes. And then they're not the hundred dollar undershirts or whatever, frankly, insanity our consultant was talking about when she talked about buying an expensive undershirt on our podcast.
I think these were like $18 a shirt and they're gonna last me between one and two years each.
[00:54:26] Speaker A: Yeah, I think she said $80.
[00:54:29] Speaker B: Fi on that. Let's move on.
[00:54:32] Speaker A: That's crazy. Okay, okay, so here we are, end of year. I. I'm encouraging you guys to hit end of year sales hard. So here's some of the sales that are going to be happening very soon after this episode drops. Target slashes men's basics up to 50% at the end of the year. Now you might think, well, that's not what I'm. That's not where I'm going to get my date closed. But for basics, it's great.
If you need a nice new pair of shorts or a basic pair of jeans or a basic white shirt, Target's totally acceptable.
Same thing with Old Navy. 40 to 60% off at the end of the year. Banana Republic goes 40 to 60% off on full price layers and suits at the end of the year. So that's going to be like sweaters, even button up sweaters. Really nice shirts from Banana Republic. J. Crew does the same thing with end of year sales, whether it's trousers or separate shirts.
[00:55:38] Speaker B: Yeah, that's all good. I, I mean, the truth is some of those places, even at full price, are pretty affordable. And so I used to think designer jeans were like a sign that you were taking careful thought about how you would look. And then I realized you can go to American Eagle or Old Navy or any of these places and get the jeans that will last just as long. It's not like the old Wrangler J's where a pair of jeans would last you 15 years. Yeah, all modern jeans, in my experience, are going to wear out in about a year and a half if you wear them a lot. So might as well save some coin. I've never once had somebody go, are those cheap jeans you're wearing? That kind of ruins the whole outfit. So I'm a big fan of saving money on things like that.
[00:56:22] Speaker A: Yeah, I. My experience with jeans is there's one customer I'm trying to please with jeans, that's my wife. So I no longer purchase jeans without her presence.
And I'll just say that's totally appropriate. She's the number one person that I'm dressing for. I want her to like the way that I look. I can back that up with a Bible verse. I think that's in first in seven. It says that your bodies belong to one another.
So if I say, well, these are the cheap place that I get chinos. Deal with it.
No, that's not how it works.
We want her. Please. We want her input. The last thing I want to throw out is work pants. Target and Old Navy. If you need chinos. Right, like flat front pants that aren't jeans, they're 20 to $40 on sale at Old Navy.
If you need something that's more durable because of whatever you do with your life. I'm thinking of Michael Bowe out there throwing lumber around all day. He needs to go to Carhartt or buy Dickies. And they are at this, at the end of the year, 50% off for durable daily wear stuff. Guys, if we're persuading you, we're with our words. You think I should put some of my end of year coin towards improving? First of all, I'm going to audit my junk. I'm going to get rid of old junk, I'm going to get rid of boy clothes, and I'm going to improve a couple of pieces from my wardrobe. There's some references for you. Anything else before we wrap it up, Mark?
[00:58:01] Speaker B: No, I. I'm a huge fan of the Old Navy. They call it the tech ultimate.
It's kind of got a little polyester mixed into the slack. Makes it comfy, comfy, stretchy. But I can wear that with a tie. And people, it looks great. You just iron it out. If you need it to look a little nicer, put a nice crease down the middle. And let's see, they cost $24, so not super expensive. And I've again found that they last just as long as an expensive dress pant. So go for it.
[00:58:36] Speaker A: Great. Okay, fellas, that is a wrap on why your wardrobe isn't just fabric.
It's fuel for your Abrahamic leadership. Remember, God is calling you to act like men, to persuade people with your presence. That includes your face and your shave and your haircut and your words and your attitude and to manage your household with dignity. So we are encouraging you, you as brothers. Let's ditch childish clothing and invest wisely in what fits your calling. And watch how it elevates your respect, starting with yourself and your household and your community.
And I think your kingdom impact, it's not going to make you a better minister, but it's going to keep you from undercutting your message with the way that you look.
I think that when you do those things means you're honoring God and your wife and the legacy that you're building. So not only do I want you to audit your closet and get rid of some old stuff today, but I'd love for you to head over to abrahamswallet.com grab some free resources on family leadership. We'd love for you to subscribe to this podcast that you're listening to. Send it to a friend. If you've got a really poorly dressed friend you really want to encourage, you can just throw this over to to them and join our conversation over at er. Until next week, run your home and dough like a biblical boss.
