Episode Transcript
[00:00:00] Have you seen Chipotle's new Halloween campaign? They're calling it Summon the Spirits Tour. My wife told me about this and, yeah, there's a little furor going on over it. The ad features a Ouija board and a crystal ball. And the line, the spirits have spoken. The margarita is back. And a lot of people are furious about it. Some other people are shrugging their shoulders and saying, ah, it's just clever marketing. So which is it? Is this okay for Christians? Is it okay in your home? Is the normal merriment of Halloween just innocent seasonal fun?
[00:00:38] Are there real dangers in treating the occult and death and dark spirits as playful entertainment? That's what we're going to talk about today on Abraham's Wallet.
[00:00:51] Hey, everybody, welcome back to Abraham's Wallet. I'm Stephen Manuel, alone with you today, and I'm going to talk about one of the highlights of my year and that would be Halloween.
[00:01:04] Not because I really love incantations and graveyards, but because it's my birthday. So it's always been something that I've made a big deal about over the years, and a big deal was made for me when I was a kid.
[00:01:20] And I just will say right up front before we go in that the Bible is not neutral nor vague about what to do about the subject that Halloween brings to the fore in everyone's home. If you're an American, let me just. I'm just gonna reference. There's three passages. I'm not gonna kill you with scripture on this episode. I wanna keep this brief and light, but I'll just say Deuteronomy 18 flatly forbids divination, mediums, necromancy, which is the communicating with or inquiring with the dead, and. And it calls those things an abomination.
[00:02:02] So when we get into abomination territory, as far as God goes, we're talking about something that you should probably stay away from in every form. It's going to be a massive. No, no, that's the word. Abomination kind of has that connotation.
[00:02:19] The early church, in Acts 19, the second passage I want to reference when they were all coming to the Lord in Ephesus, they were burning their books of sorcery and magic. And anything that had to do with what we now call the occult, that is speaking with any spirit or Persona that isn't part of the kingdom of God. That's a pretty safe way to talk about the occult, including talking to saints who have passed before.
[00:02:53] That's not something that is allowed in scripture.
[00:02:57] First, Thessalonians 5 tells us to test everything and abstain from every form of evil. So we're gonna unpack that. But here's the bottom line. I'll give it to you right up front in case you can't stick around for the full episode. Christians are free to enjoy fall and community and creativity. We are not free to. To normalize or play footsie with the kingdom of darkness. So stick with us. And I'm going to give you both the biblical boundary lines and some concrete practical alternatives for your family, which I've done with my family. So here we go. I'll just start by describing my street, which is probably a lot like your street.
[00:03:40] When I walk the dog, I walk past a couple of graveyards.
[00:03:45] I walk past. This is in late October, a couple of graveyards.
[00:03:49] I walk past a blowup of three witches who are stirring something in a cauldron, several inflatable black cats.
[00:04:03] There are some skeletons.
[00:04:07] There aren't depictions of decapitations. And like truly horror images, those do exist within a mile of my front door, but not on my street.
[00:04:18] My street is a typical.
[00:04:21] I don't live in the suburbs, but it's a typical suburban kind of scene where it all feels very safe and cute. And I mean, it's just. It's like gravestones with jokes, you know, written on them, and there a couple of.
[00:04:38] A couple of skeletons trying to get out of their graves, you know, a couple of ghosts hanging from trees, this kind of thing.
[00:04:47] And I think this is obviously so common for the American experience.
[00:04:53] It was totally common for me growing up as a kid. And I never really questioned the holiday. It was my birthday, so it was always a big to do, and we participated. I remember teaching when I was a college minister. I remember talking to the students about, well, there's some things that the Bible doesn't address, and so let's not make new boundary lines, et cetera. And the Bible doesn't say, don't celebrate Halloween. This is definitely one of those discernment kind of issues. But when I walk around and I see the decorations at various homes and I know who lives in those homes, the main feeling that I have is these people don't know what they're dealing with.
[00:05:38] I think of it's not quite as severe as this, but I do think of this quote often when Jesus is hanging on the cross and he says, forgive them, Lord. They don't know what they're doing.
[00:05:48] And certainly that was true of the Romans who were nailing him up to that tree. And the Pharisees who were giving their approval.
[00:05:59] But it's true. So in so many cultural touchstones that happen around us these days, I think of the kind of movies that people let their children see, the kind of technology that goes unbridled in homes, and I just think, forgive us, Lord. We are so ignorant. We don't know what we're doing so many times. So I know that the feeling is it's just a costume. It's just candy.
[00:06:27] I want to ask the question, is that actually the case? Is it innocuous? Is it just sweet little fun?
[00:06:34] Last year, around this time, coming up on Halloween, my wife sent me a podcast episode from the Jesus People Podcast. I happen to know, because I just looked it up, that it was episode 38, and there was a dude who was a guest on this episode named Rion Steven Swigalar. I believe that's how you pronounce his last name. He's South African, Rhian. I know that his first name is Rhian, and Rhian is a very interesting guy because he was a former leader of the South African Church of Satan.
[00:07:12] Now he's a believer. He had an encounter with Christ, which is amazing. It's worth listening to.
[00:07:17] And he's a Christian. And what he did was he came onto this podcast and said, I want to talk to you Christians about Halloween, because I don't think you get it.
[00:07:29] Here's what he said. Halloween is the highest day of the satanic calendar. It is the most important day on the satanic calendar. It's considered a high day. It is also the night of the year where there is the most human sacrifice around the world, on the entire planet.
[00:07:50] He references the guy. I don't know if you've heard of this character before. There was a. A guy who founded the Church of Satan as an organization. His name was Anton lavey.
[00:08:02] And he said this. This is a direct quote from the founder of the Church of Satan. I want to thank Christian parents for allowing their children to celebrate the devil one day of the year.
[00:08:15] And Anton Lavey's idea was if we could make it one day of the year where there's approval from Christian parents to let their children have fun with the devil. I mean, when I was a kid, it seems like mostly what you see now with costumes is like movie characters.
[00:08:40] When I was a kid, I mean, Jerry Seinfeld talks about this. A hobo was an actual option for what you could dress up for for Halloween.
[00:08:50] I went as an old man one year. I mean, costumes have changed, but I Used to see kids dressed as the devil. They wear a little red suit, they wear horns, they get a little, you know, penciled in mascara goatee and a pointy tail and a pitchfork in your hand and you're the devil. And we're actually making light of the whole world of evil. So that's Anton lavey quote going back to Rhian. He said more. He said, what we're doing, if we are celebrating Halloween as Christians, you are actually having a one night stand with the devil. That's a simple way to put that.
[00:09:34] And the idea, it seems to be, well, we could kind of dabble in graves and the dead and zombies and whatever else that you think of as creepy, evil, deathly. And then when November comes around, we can just move on and it's fine. But what Rhian suggests is there is a door that's been opened.
[00:09:55] And I'll go on with his quotes and then make my comments. He says if we think of a neighborhood or an area where there's a few homes celebrating Halloween, that whole perimeter becomes a satanic ritual by definition. These are not my words. This is this guy who is a leader in the Church of Satan. He says that whole perimeter becomes a satanic ritual by definition. So it's like a hotspot for demonic activity. And you're opening doors to the dark side of the spirit world when you're doing these things and engaging in these celebrations.
[00:10:32] And he's talking about the sort of innocuous celebrations that, I mean, my family did.
[00:10:39] It gets dark or it gets dusky and you go out and you ask for candy from strangers. Trick or treat. There's a whole this is not an episode about the historical accounts of how did Halloween come to be. There's interesting and distressing history behind all of that. And where did even trick or treat come from? Or where did dressing up in costumes? There is a history of all of that stuff. That's not what I'm doing. It exists, it happens. And I'm just asking the question, what do we do about it?
[00:11:11] He goes on and talks about regarding candy and children. The whole thing about candy and children connected to Halloween is about sweetening their blood.
[00:11:20] That's crazy. I would think. Oh, come on. But again, he says there's human sacrifice that happens around the world on Halloween night. He's like, it's a night when Christians should be praying, praying for mercy and praying against evil. And he says that the idea is their blood is being sweetened. And he ties it to the occult idea, ideas of blood as Spiritual currency and our becoming desensitized to this whole thing. I'll just throw in a couple other points that Rhian makes.
[00:11:53] He says that costumes and disguises serve a purpose in occult practices.
[00:12:00] They can attract or evade certain spirits. So the whole kind of hooded robe, kind of, you know, dark priest, that whole kind of scene is just so completely off limits for a believer. He says that the day is used for rank advancement in satanic circles. This is when you kind of can move up to the next level. And Christians should exercise authority in Christ over their homes and territory rather than participate.
[00:12:27] I'll just say before I go on from here that when I'm in my right mind, you know, one of the things that I can do is drive around pointing fingers. There's a couple of shocking displays near my home and I can drive by and just, oh, cluck my teeth and just go, these people.
[00:12:48] Can you believe how disgusting and evil they are? And if you remember, in the summer we did an episode about how I can do that with my kids present and just, oh, just. I'm just nay saying everything. Nay, nay, nay.
[00:13:01] What my reaction ought to be is what it is sometimes when I'm walking the dog and I'm just praying for each of these homes. Oh, God, forgive them, for they do not know what they do. Oh, Lord, would you protect these homes? I ask for your spirit on our street.
[00:13:17] If there are doors that are being opened to the enemy, I ask that you'd close them in Jesus name. I ask that you'd protect our street. Lord, we don't want to be a haunt of demons, which is a phrase from the scriptures.
[00:13:33] We don't want to be welcoming of evil. Oh, God, protect us, et cetera.
[00:13:38] So that's what Rhian is talking about when he says, take authority in Christ over these things.
[00:13:44] So these are his claims from inside that world. These are not Bible verses. This is one man's testimony, and I think he's great to listen to. The point is not fear mongering. I want you to be more afraid.
[00:13:58] I want you to know that the other side, your enemy, doesn't think that Halloween is neutral fun.
[00:14:06] That's a pretty helpful data point for me. So the enemy doesn't think that Halloween is just community night.
[00:14:15] Oh, it's all fine and fun.
[00:14:18] No, they think it's very important and they think it's a doorway to expanding evil impact in America. So yikes. No good.
[00:14:29] As I said, I'm not going to browbeat you with scriptures, but I want to give you A couple. Okay. This is the Deuteronomy 18 passage that I referenced.
[00:14:38] It says this.
[00:14:40] Anyone who practices divination that is trying to talk to Satan or demons, anyone who practices divination or tells fortunes or interprets omens, a sorcerer or a charmer or a medium, that is somebody that can talk to the spirit world and help others to talk to the spirit world, or a necromancer or one who inquires of the dead.
[00:15:10] Whoever does these things is an abomination to the Lord. And because of these abominations, the Lord your God is driving them out before you. So this is a reference to God's trying to describe of his people going into the promised land. He's going, these people that I'm about to drive out of this land, they do all of these things.
[00:15:30] You guys don't do that.
[00:15:33] So I'm bringing you into this land and you're going to remove these people. And we're not doing that anymore.
[00:15:39] And I just have to throw this in on this verse we talk on Abe's wallet regularly about. You're going to have to be weird if you're going to lead a godly home in modern America. You're going to have to be a little bit of unusual American.
[00:15:56] And if you kind of are nodding your head when I say that, then I kind of have to scoot up next to you and say, well, when?
[00:16:03] When are you going to be abnormal?
[00:16:07] Have you thought about that?
[00:16:09] There are certain things that happen in the culture that we cannot approve of. We just can't go along with it. And you're going to have to train into your children, that there has to be a no muscle that's built into them.
[00:16:25] I think it's Titus one that says that the spirit of God teaches us how to say no.
[00:16:31] So there are some things that are going to happen when you go into Target. I'm sure if you went into Target right now, I haven't been in in a while, but I'm sure it's just Halloween to the rafters.
[00:16:42] Well, there's got to be something in us that goes no on this one.
[00:16:47] We don't really go all in on this.
[00:16:50] So there are some things. There are some holidays and events in an American calendar that Christians should be more into than anybody else. I would venture a guest. Christmas ought to be one of those times. We're more into it than anybody because we see meaning in it that's really been stripped out of it culturally. Oh, no. But not us. Hey, whoa. Don't play With Christmas, it's the Mass of Christ, baby. It's a big deal. I would think that a Christian would be way more into Thanksgiving than your average Joe.
[00:17:25] There are holidays that we're not going to be into like the world. And Halloween has got to be at the top of the list. Like, sorry, we can't really participate in that the way that the world does. And then there's a whole raft of them that's neither here nor there. How do you feel about Labor Day and President's Day? Eh, I don't know. Neither here nor there. That's okay. You could be really. I don't know anybody who's really into Arbor Day, but that could be your thing and that's fine. I would consider Arbor Day to be morally neutral. So one more passage, actually two more Acts 19 tells the story, as I mentioned, of the believers in Ephesus and they're burning all these books of sorcery and magic. I'm not going to read that. But I want you to understand that the purity that came to these people when they met Jesus for real, it was assumption for them, it was totally rational. Well, then we're gonna have to get rid of everything that connects us into a belief system that doesn't honor God.
[00:18:31] So they got rid of all these books. I don't know if I can tell this story quickly, but I had a friend who had come from Occultic World and he had been a part of fortune telling and you know, if you've ever heard of the secret, the world of the secret, which is kind of like false prophecy. And he had been in this world and he was in the hospital.
[00:18:53] This was a cool story.
[00:18:55] He was in the hospital having had a stroke and he had a hemorrhage in his brain.
[00:19:02] And I just took a couple of guys to his house. He was in the hospital, he wasn't his house. And I just asked him as he was in the hospital, is there anything in this house that we need to get rid of? And I thought of this passage, this Acts 19 passage, the burning of these books. And he said, yeah, there's two books. And one of them was about the secret. And we went into his house, we found those books, we took em out to the barbecue pit on his back deck, we lit those things on fire and we just cleansed the place and just said, you know, in Jesus name, this influence that's been in this home has got to leave in Jesus name. And we ask for your spirit to be on this place. Lord and God, close every door that was opened to evil and open every door that was closed to your spirit and to your healing and your deliverance and your salvation. I have to tell you because it's the Lord's goodness that they told us that very moment the brain hemorrhage stopped for him. His brain stopped bleeding. He is now healed and walking around. And I had coffee with him recently.
[00:20:17] I didn't ask him if I could tell this story. So I'm not going to say his name. But my point is that world of the occult and dealing with spiritual powers that are not in league with the spirit of God opened the door into all sorts of mayhem. And that's what the new believers in Acts 19 knew. And I don't think all of us know this. Now, lastly, 1 Thessalonians, chapter 5 says, Test everything, hold fast what is good and abstain from every form of evil. Abstain from every form of evil. And you might know that there's a verse in 2 Corinthians 6 that says, what does the light have to do with the darkness?
[00:21:04] We don't have anything to do with that stuff. What in the world would we even be playing footsie with that stuff for? Simple point is that the biblical posture is not never, how far can I go and still be okay? How many beers could I drink until I feel buzzed and then maybe I'll try? That's not the way that a believer thinks. A believer thinks we want to pursue purity and we don't want to play with things that are dangerous. So I'm going to throw out a couple of alternatives. I'll give you some shoulds and some should nots, and we'll close out. So a couple of alternatives that we have found is the Bible doesn't say that all dress up is evil.
[00:21:50] It doesn't say that anywhere. It talks about gender bending dress that that is not allowed.
[00:21:57] But all dress up is not forbidden. And there is a holiday called Purim, which is the celebration for, from the Book of Esther, about God's people being delivered.
[00:22:08] And that's an interesting thing. In the Book of Esther, at the end, God mandates that Purim is celebrated by Jews once a year, forever. And you're even told how to celebrate it at the end of the Book of Esther.
[00:22:24] Well, one of the ways that Jews have celebrated a Purim, which is a celebration, it's kind of like Sukkot, it's supposed to be a very good time, is the Bible says to read the Book of Esther and then they all dress up in different costumes. So some People dress up as Esther and some people dress up as Haman, and some people dress up as Mordecai. And then some people dress up like, I don't know, Bambi or frogs or, you know, whatever. And it's turned into a day of merriment in the Jewish community. So we've done that before. We certainly did that with little kids. We had parties, we had Purim parties, had people, you know, everybody dress up, let's have fun. And it was kind of a feast and we just have a party. And we would pause and read that book and then say, isn't God good? You know, we're celebrating. So I throw that out as one possibility. And the second thing, this is way more serious than that. But. But it's kind of an alternative of what do you do with this day?
[00:23:31] And I have known it's kind of a growing movement of people who are having worship times of worship on Halloween night.
[00:23:41] And one of our listeners, and he's actually on our leadership board, Vijay, is in New York, I think he's having this party on Long Island.
[00:23:53] He's going to be doing a worship night. And he talked about.
[00:23:58] What kind of stuff would you think? I said, oh, we've done these before and it's really great because we don't dial into Halloween and we're not singing like, I don't know, Jack o' Lantern songs.
[00:24:14] We zero in on the fact that Halloween was a reference or a departure from All Saints Day.
[00:24:22] And All Saints Day is November 1st.
[00:24:24] And All Saints Day is a day when one we consider the lives of the saints who have gone before us.
[00:24:31] And if you've ever heard of Dia de los Muertos for Latino America, their whole thing is it's the day of the dead, when the dead are all kind of moving around. Well, the reason that came about is from a Catholic background.
[00:24:46] This All Saints Day, when we think about those who have gone before us and you visit, you might visit graves. Why are you visiting graves? Are you conjuring up zombies? No, they were going to visit graves to remember. For instance, I could go to my father's grave in Texas on All Saints Day and have a moment, sit at his grave and go, just remember the righteousness of my father and what he did for our family and God. I'm so grateful for this man's life. He changed the story of my family. And look right beside him is my grandfather Urgal. I did have a grandfather named Urgal and see Urgal's grave. And I consider how he changed the Story of our generations. And you look around and you're surrounded by this great cloud of witnesses. I happen to be from a multi generational Christian family.
[00:25:43] That's where this kind of all Saints day idea came from, is we're celebrating the saints who've gone before.
[00:25:50] And we're celebrating saints long before us. We're celebrating Isaiah and we're celebrating Daniel and we're celebrating Abraham and we're celebrating Moses and Paul and Peter and all these heroes of the faith. I get goosebumps just naming their names.
[00:26:09] And we are surrounded by this great cloud of witnesses. And let's remember these people and be thankful for them. A classic reading would be Hebrews 11 on this day. That's the many times called the hall of Faith. Kind of like the hall of fame, but it's the hall of faith in Hebrews 11. And it's a description of these people who have gone before and how they gave their lives for the Lord.
[00:26:34] If you want some really good material, pick up a copy. You can get a paperback for five bucks of Foxes Book of Martyrs.
[00:26:42] And it's chronicles of people who. They would not deny their faith. And to quote Revelation 12:11, they loved not their lives even to the point of death, and they died for the sake of Christ.
[00:26:58] So me personally, I like remembering that kind of thing and rededicating myself on October 31st or November 1st, rededicating myself. Lord, I have an ambition to live for you and yes, to die for you. I want to die in Christ.
[00:27:16] Now, if I die for Christ, if I die because of Christ, okay, I can't really make that happen. I'm not going to make that happen. But I'm going to die in Christ.
[00:27:26] So Lord, just like Stephen, the first martyr, I want to have in my heart the willingness to say yes to you and even to the point of death. Oh God, if there's anything in me that wants to hold on to my little breath. Cause that's what's most precious to me. Oh Lord, I release that to you. Let me be like these saints of old, these martyrs. I like that as a worship theme as well as a family prayer time. So I throw those out to you. Okay, I'm done. I'm just gonna give you some practical shoulds and should nots.
[00:28:04] I'm not trying to create new laws for you by giving you these.
[00:28:09] I'm just trying to be helpful because I do run into guys with young families and they go, should we do this? Should we not do this? So if you don't want My opinion, you know, you can just press stop, but here's my kind of coaching recommends for you. And by the way, before I get into my shoes and should nots, I know we're already really late into October. I mean, we're releasing this like three days before Halloween. So I'm not assuming, by the way, you're just gonna run around and change the way we do Halloween. Because this is what they said this week on Abe's Wallet. I just wanna challenge the way that you're thinking about this stuff. So maybe you change some things this year, maybe you change some things next year. Maybe have a talk with the spouse about these things.
[00:28:56] That's what I'm trying to do. I'm just trying to. This is the time of year to talk about Halloween. So let's talk about Halloween. And you know, all's not lost if your kid dresses up as a zombie this year. It's not the end of the world. It might not be the wisest thing, but we can, you know, we can grow from here. So. Okay, here's my shoulds. I'm going to give you five shoulds, five should nots and wrap up. Should we should decorate for the season? Yeah, sure. Put fall colors around and leaves and corn stalks and candles and harvest imagery. Sure, that's a should.
[00:29:29] Should not decorate with nods to death. Cobwebs, graves, skeletons, spiders and horror motifs.
[00:29:39] You know, don't give any nods to death.
[00:29:44] Number two, should, again with the fall kind of theme going on.
[00:29:49] Should have pumpkins and gourds and Indian corn around. Great.
[00:29:53] Should not carve jack o' lanterns. Now that was a big aha for me. Hearing Rion speak was that there's actually occultic roots to jack o' lanterns.
[00:30:06] Don't do it. He recommends you don't do it. And I thought, well, I'd rather be pure than hold on to some tradition because. Because I like baked pumpkin seeds, which I do.
[00:30:20] Number three, be warm and welcoming to neighbors. Yeah, do that. Hospitality is still a Christian virtue if you're one of those people that we put out hot dog feed on the street and we want the parents to hang around for a minute. We want to meet some neighbors. Great, do that. Be warm and welcoming. Do hospitality. Don't. Should not participate in anything that simulates seances, witchcraft or glorifies death and darkness. I'm just thinking of kind of what happens at Halloween parties.
[00:30:52] So that's when the Ouija board can come out. Oh, this is kind of fun. Oh, let's all turn the lights off and, I don't know, slaughter a chicken.
[00:31:00] No, we're not going to do any of that stuff. Four should fix your minds on what is good, true and beautiful. Love. Philippians 4. 8. Whatever's true, whatever is noble, whatever is right, whatever is pure. If anything is lovely or admirable, if anything is excellent or worthy of praise. Think about such things. What a great verse. These are the kind of things that we're to be thinking about. I didn't hear anything in that list that would include Halloween. So don't.
[00:31:29] Number four. Should not watch violent or horror movies that throw thrill with fear and gore and the gruesome. That's just not a Christian posture. We don't get thrilled at being scared or thinking about horrible things or inventing horrible things. That's not our picture of entertainment.
[00:31:51] Number five, last one. Should use the season for intentional family discipleship. That is scripture history and joyful alternatives. That's all great. Tell family stories, Celebrate the saints before us, commit ourselves to the Lord. Should not treat the occult as just a game or good clean fun.
[00:32:13] It's not innocuous as it presents itself. So here's the heart of it. We're not called to be joyless or weird just for the sake of being weird. We're called to be set apart. So Halloween culture has normalized things that scripture calls abominable and that former practitioners of the occult still treat as spiritually significant.
[00:32:35] That's pretty helpful to know we can enjoy autumn and creativity and community and even costumes. Great. Without handing our households over to the themes of death and darkness. Test everything, guys.
[00:32:51] Hold on to what is good. Abstain from every form of evil.
[00:32:56] And instead of just saying no, we don't do that. We like to sit and home with our arms folded and stare at the wall. No. Fill the space with something better. Fill it with life instead of death.
[00:33:08] We could do Purim style celebrations. We can do all saints remembrances. And we can do ordinary hospitality that points to life. I mean, come on, you can get people in your living room. Somebody grab a guitar and man, we're off and running, man. It is the season of smoke smoked meats. I mean, I just think God loves an autumn smoked meat. So if this has been helpful, share it with another friend or family member. And as always, may the Lord bless you as you lead your household this Halloween season.
[00:33:42] And we'll see you. We'll see you in November, which is coming real soon. See you next week.
